You Can Never Have An Honest Discussion With The Left

Columbine perpetrators forced their way walked past non-existent armed guards at Columbine, and that proves that armed guards don’t work.

Anti-gun campaigners were quick to point out on Friday that putting armed guards in schools has been tried – and has failed.

The Violence Policy Centre said that Columbine High School in Colorado had armed law enforcement agents on call when two teenagers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, embarked on a shooting spree in 1999.

NRA proposal to post armed guards in schools is debunked by critics | World news | guardian.co.uk

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26 Responses to You Can Never Have An Honest Discussion With The Left

  1. Pathway says:

    And Jeffco swat sat outside while these two nut cases went on their killing rampage. Swat teams completely rethought their tactics after this fiasco.

  2. Feb. 2, 1996
    Moses Lake, Wash. Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class

    Feb. 19, 1997
    Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.

    Oct. 1, 1997
    Pearl, Miss. Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.

    Dec. 1, 1997
    West Paducah, Ky. Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.

    Dec. 15, 1997
    Stamps, Ark. Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot.

    March 24, 1998
    Jonesboro, Ark. Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods

    April 24, 1998
    Edinboro, Pa. One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.

    May 19, 1998
    Fayetteville, Tenn. One student killed in the parking lot at Lincoln County High School three days before he was to graduate. The victim was dating the ex-girlfriend of his killer, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis.

    May 21, 1998
    Springfield, Ore. Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home.

    April 20, 1999
    Littleton, Colo. 14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School, Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.

    May 20, 1999
    Conyers, Ga. Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.

    Nov. 19, 1999
    Deming, N.M. Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School.

    Dec. 6, 1999
    Fort Gibson, Okla. Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School.

    Feb. 29, 2000
    Mount Morris Township, Mich. Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun.

    May 26, 2000
    Lake Worth, Fla. One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes.

    Sept. 26, 2000
    New Orleans, La. Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School.

    Jan. 17, 2001
    Baltimore, Md. One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School.

    Jan. 18, 2001
    Jan, Sweden One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.
    March 5, 2001

    Santee, Calif. Two killed and 13 wounded by Charles Andrew Williams, 15, firing from a bathroom at Santana High School.

    March 7, 2001
    Williamsport, Pa. Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased.

    March 22, 2001

    Granite Hills, Calif. One teacher and three students wounded by Jason Hoffman, 18, at Granite Hills High School. A policeman shot and wounded Hoffman.
    March 30, 2001

    Gary, Ind. One student killed by Donald R. Burt, Jr., a 17-year-old student who had been expelled from Lew Wallace High School.
    Nov. 12, 2001

    Caro, Mich. Chris Buschbacher, 17, took two hostages at the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.

    October 28, 2002
    Tucson, Ariz. Robert S. Flores Jr., 41, a student at the nursing school at the University of Arizona, shot and killed three female professors and then himself.

    April 14, 2003
    New Orleans, La. One 15-year-old killed, and three students wounded at John McDonogh High School by gunfire from four teenagers (none were students at the school). The motive was gang-related.

    April 24, 2003
    Red Lion, Pa. James Sheets, 14, killed principal Eugene Segro of Red Lion Area Junior High School before killing himself.

    March 21, 2005
    Red Lake, Minn. Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead.

    Nov. 8, 2005
    Jacksboro, Tenn. One 15-year-old shot and killed an assistant principal at Campbell County High School and seriously wounded two other administrators.

    Aug. 24, 2006
    Essex, Vt. Christopher Williams, 27, looking for his ex-girlfriend at Essex Elementary School, shot two teachers, killing one and wounding another. Before going to the school, he had killed the ex-girlfriend’s mother.

    Sept. 29, 2006
    Cazenovia, Wis. A 15-year-old student shot and killed Weston School principal John Klang.

    Oct. 3, 2006
    Nickel Mines, Pa. 32-year-old Carl Charles Roberts IV entered the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School and shot 10 schoolgirls, ranging in age from 6 to 13 years old, and then himself. Five of the girls and Roberts died.

    Jan. 3, 2007
    Tacoma, Wash. Douglas Chanthabouly, 18, shot fellow student Samnang Kok, 17, in the hallway of Henry Foss High School.

    April 16, 2007
    Blacksburg, Va. A 23-year-old Virginia Tech student, Cho Seung-Hui, killed two in a dorm, then killed 30 more 2 hours later in a classroom building. His suicide brought the death toll to 33, making the shooting rampage the most deadly in U.S. history. Fifteen others were wounded.

    Sept. 21, 2007
    Dover, Del. A Delaware State Univesity Freshman, Loyer D. Brandon, shot and wounded two other Freshman students on the University campus. Brandon is being charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless engagement, as well as a gun charge.

    Oct. 10, 2007
    Cleveland, Ohio A 14-year-old student at a Cleveland high school, Asa H. Coon, shot and injured two students and two teachers before he shot and killed himself. The victims’ injuries were not life-threatening.

    Feb. 8, 2008
    Baton Rouge, Louisiana A nursing student shot and killed two women and then herself in a classroom at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge.
    Feb. 11, 2008
    Memphis, Tennessee A 17-year-old student at Mitchell High School shot and wounded a classmate in gym class.

    Feb. 12, 2008
    Oxnard, California A 14-year-old boy shot a student at E.O. Green Junior High School causing the 15-year-old victim to be brain dead.

    Feb. 14, 2008
    DeKalb, Illinois Gunman killed five students and then himself, and wounded 17 more when he opened fire on a classroom at Northern Illinois University. The gunman, Stephen P. Kazmierczak, was identified as a former graduate student at the university in 2007.

    Feb. 5, 2010
    Madison, Alabama At Discovery Middle School, a ninth-grader was shot by another student during a class change. The boy, whose name was not released, pulled out a gun and shot Todd Brown in the head while walking the hallway. Brown later died at Huntsville Hospital.

    Feb. 12, 2010
    Huntsville, Alabama During a meeting on campus, Amy Bishop, a biology professor, began shot her colleagues, killing three and wounding three others. A year earlier, Bishop had been denied tenure.

    March 9, 2010
    Columbus, Ohio A man opens fire at Ohio State University, killing two employees and wounding one other. The shooter had recently received an “unsatisfactory” job evaluation and was going to be fired on March 13.

    Jan. 5, 2011
    Omaha, Nebraska Two people were killed and two more injured in a shooting at Millard South High School. Shortly after being suspended from school, the shooter returned and shot the assistant principal, principal, and the school nurse. The shooter then left campus and took his own life.

    Jan. 5, 2011
    Houston, Texas Two people opened fire during a Worthing High School powder-puff football game. One former student died. Five other people were injured.

    Dec. 8, 2011
    Blacksburg, Virginia A Virginia Tech police officer was shot and killed by a 22-year old student of Radford University. The shooting took place in a parking lot on Virginia Tech’s campus.
    Feb. 10, 2012
    Walpole, New Hampshire A 14-year-old student shot himself in front of 70 fellow students.

    Feb. 27, 2012
    Chardon, Ohio At Chardon High School, a former classmate opened fire, killing three students and injuring six. Arrested shortly after the incident, the shooter said that he randomly picked students.

    March 6, 2012
    Jacksonville, Florida Shane Schumerth, a 28-year-old teacher at Episcopal High School, returned to the campus after being fired and shot and killed the headmistress, Dale Regan, with an assault rifle.

    April 2, 2012
    Oakland, Calif. One Goh, a 43-year-old former student at Oikos University, a Christian school populated by mostly Korean and Korean-Americans, opened fire on the campus, killing seven people and wounding several others.

    August 5, 2012
    Oak Creek, Wis. A gunman opens fire at a Sikh temple, killing six people and wounding three. Police shot and killed the suspect, Wade Michael Page, after the attack. Page, a neo-Nazi, served in the U.S. Army from 1992 to 1998.

    December 11, 2012
    Portland, Ore. Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22, opened fire in the Clackamas Town Center mall, located 11 miles from downtown Portland, Oregon. Using an AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle, Roberts killed two people and wounded one other. He then took his own life.

    December 14, 2012
    Newtown, Conn. Adam Lanza, 20, killed 20 children and six others at the Sandy Hook Elementary School. He killed his mother, Nancy, at her home prior to the massacre at the school. Lanza committed suicide after the rampage. The shooting was the second deadliest in U.S. history, behind the 2007 shooting at Virginia Polytechnic Institute that claimed 32 people.

    Sorry America when this is happening in your schools then there is something seriously wrong with your gun laws and the only answer I am hearing is to arm teachers.

    • Apparently you don’t hear very well. Massacres always happen in places where guns are prohibited by law. They never happen in places where people are armed. What part of that is not clear to you?

      • You are usually right on climate change and if I was you I would stick to that one subject.

        As you know the UK has a zero tolerance on guns where are the UK’s regular gun massacre’s? Apparently according to you every school in the UK should see a gun massacre at least once a year seeing that Massacres always happen in places where guns are prohibited by law. not one since Dumblane when the UK tightened up its already tough gun laws. Just one gun massacre in 2010 in Cumbria. According to you seeing that the UK places is where guns are prohibited by law we should all now be to frightened to even walk the streets or even get out from beneath the bed clothes each morning. 56 murders by guns a year in a country where we have stringent gun laws . 96 a day in a country where they don’t give a dam and think its great to own an arsenal that as an ex officer in the British army I could only wish for. Tell me stevengoddard what part of the world do you think is the safest the UK the U.S when it comes down to gun law, what part is not clear to you

        As I said at the beginning stick to climate change where you talk sense everything else don’t bother to even think about it or even write about it. Merry Christmas.

      • The UK has much higher rates of property crime and assault than US red states. This is because people in UK don’t own guns.

    • LLAP says:

      @gwlear:

      Here is a timeline that goes further back:

      http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/us/timeline-school-violence/index.html

      See how many of these acts of violence were committed before 1960. The answer is very very few. The political left that is currently screaming for gun control is the same political left that has systematically destroyed the family unit and the Judeo-Christian morals that made such acts of violence a rarity. Sorry America, when this is happening in your schools, then there is something seriously wrong with your moral fabric. Calling for gun control is a case of trying to treat the symptom, not the disease.

      • johnmcguire says:

        LLAP , very well stated . It should also be pointed out that all of those victims listed in gwlearconsumergwls’ statement were unarmed and did not have adequate means to defend themselves .

      • LLAP says:

        @john: True – they are always unarmed. That is the part the gun control advocates simply don’t get. Also, in most cases, the shooters turn the gun on themselves the moment someone else with a gun shows up.

    • johnmcguire says:

      Seems to me this recital of incidents is an indictment of the violent culture that is developing in America rather than an indictment of gun laws . This culture is the result of the fantasy world being portrayed by the television and movie industries . They are causing people to develop an expectation of immediate success and instant gratification that is in denial of the reality that most good things take time and hard work and sacrifice and the fact is some people will not succeed in fulfilling their desires . This has nothing to do with guns other than the fact a gun was the tool used in killing . It still comes down to the fact that an unarmed citizen is a potential victim . If you want peace of mind then carry the means to defend yourself because help is at best minutes away when seconds count .

    • Jason Calley says:

      Well, it is true that murders happen in schools. Oddly, we had fewer of them when guns were more common and not completely banned from schools. Still, it is true that we have people murdered in schools — and in churches, and in buses, and in homes, etc. It is sad and a tragedy — but is disarming a nation going to reduce the death rate? History shows us that the answer is no. In fact, the death rate soars when the average person is no longer allowed the weapons he needs to defend himself and his home. Look at India. They were disarmed for two hundred years, and during that time they died by the tens of millions as they were enslaved by evil men who kept their guns and then used them to pillage and murder at will. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/A_Few_Facts_about_British_Rule_in_India
      Surely you read your own country’s history, don’t you? Surely you know what happens to nations when their people are disarmed? After all, your country practically invented the process! Aren’t all those corpses worth counting? Explain why you count twenty pink children dead but somehow forget 100 million brown people disarmed and murdered.

    • Hugh K says:

      Thanks for making Steven’s point gwlear100consumergwl. An honest discussion from the left would also include the following list:

      — Mayan Palace Theater, San Antonio, Texas, this week: Jesus Manuel Garcia shoots at a movie theater, a police car and bystanders from the nearby China Garden restaurant; as he enters the movie theater, guns blazing, an armed off-duty cop shoots Garcia four times, stopping the attack. Total dead: Zero.

      — Winnemucca, Nev., 2008: Ernesto Villagomez opens fire in a crowded restaurant; concealed carry permit-holder shoots him dead. Total dead: Two. (I’m excluding the shooters’ deaths in these examples.)

      — Appalachian School of Law, 2002: Crazed immigrant shoots the dean and a professor, then begins shooting students; as he goes for more ammunition, two armed students point their guns at him, allowing a third to tackle him. Total dead: Three.

      — Santee, Calif., 2001: Student begins shooting his classmates — as well as the “trained campus supervisor”; an off-duty cop who happened to be bringing his daughter to school that day points his gun at the shooter, holding him until more police arrive. Total dead: Two.

      — Pearl High School, Mississippi, 1997: After shooting several people at his high school, student heads for the junior high school; assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieves a .45 pistol from his car and points it at the gunman’s head, ending the murder spree. Total dead: Two.

      — Edinboro, Pa., 1998: A student shoots up a junior high school dance being held at a restaurant; restaurant owner pulls out his shotgun and stops the gunman. Total dead: One.

      All the above cases ended when a good ‘PRIVATE’ citizen with a gun confronted the bad guy with the gun. I could go on with many more examples of good people with guns stopping bad people with guns but why bother when leftists like you don’t want an honest discussion to begin with?

      However, to reinforce Steven’s valid point that the left prefers “the debate is over” or “we have a concensus” rather than to have “an honest discussion”, lets just explore one of the examples you provided; “December 11, 2012 Portland, Ore. Jacob Tyler Roberts, 22, opened fire in the Clackamas Town Center mall, located 11 miles from downtown Portland, Oregon. Using an AR-15 semiautomatic assault rifle, Roberts killed two people and wounded one other. He then took his own life.”
      Now in the above example you provided, what you don’t want to honestly discuss is why having a rifle capable of storing and discharging a considerable number of rounds, Roberts stopped at killing two innocents while wounding only one. It turns out, concealed-carry-holder and ‘PRIVATE’ citizen Nick Meli who passed tests on shooting, safe gun handling and use-of-force laws also happened to be at the mall that day. Meli pointed his gun at the shooter and the shooter then, AND ONLY THEN, took his own life. Just the fact that Roberts had another gun pointed at him immediately ended his attempted mass murder/maiming of other innocents. Yet in your dishonest portrayal of the incident you conveniently left that fact out. Honest discussion? Not possible with the left….

      Conceal-carry laws are the only public policy that has ever been shown to reduce the death rate from such crimes.

      But don’t take my word for it, check out this study by John Locke Jr and William Landes — http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=161637

      From the abstract — “While arrest or conviction rates and the death penalty reduce normal murder rates, our results find that THE ONLY POLICY FACTOR TO INFLUENCE MULTIPLE VICTIM PUBLIC SHOOTINGS IS THE PASSAGE OF CONCEALED HANDGUN LAWS.” [Caps mine]

      Now we gave you a pass on taking The Ten Commandments out of government institutions including public shools (a refresher – #6 you shall not murder) We gave you a pass on legalizing abortion for any reason including birth control (which ironically also falls under #6 above). We give Hollywood a pass for promoting deviancy. We give pop-culture gods a pass on all their absurdities. We even gave your environmental high priest/ethicist Peter Gleick a pass after admitting his fraud. In short, we have given you a pass on every ridiculous, perverted, aberrant behavior you have incessantly whined about until you got a pass. But I’ll be damned if you leftists are going to take away the last resort….my constitutional right to defend myself, my loved ones and/or my neighbor from the very same perverse monstors your dishonest societal moral relativism test has created.

      • squid2112 says:

        The US Department of Justice statistics estimates that more than 4,000,000 violent crimes that would have resulted in a death were are thwarted every year by an armed and law abiding citizen. Other studies show this number to be very conservative and some indicate it could be twice that many as many incidents go unreported, mostly by the local authorities as it makes their community appear as violent or unsafe, where in fact it is quite the opposite.

    • savebyj says:

      The reason they happen in schools is because the shooters know there will be no guns and lots of potential victims. And didn’t Sweden have some incident where some nut job killed 17 teenagers? And didn’t like half of France get burned down by Muslim minorities who still control the ghettos there? And didn’t Englands violent crime get so bad that officers are pretty much telling victims not to press charges in fear of retaliation? Sounds like other nations have their own problems to deal with. Thanks for the concern though.

  3. Andy DC says:

    Banning guns, like banning alcohol, prostitution, gambling, will just create another huge racket for underworld gangsters. It is a waste of time. But like going green, it makes liberals feel so good!

  4. Sundance says:

    My school district has had armed police in our schools for over a decade. That’s because we the people had decided at a local level that we love and want to protect our kids. We’ve caught kids trying to bring guns into the school but we’ve had no shootings. This help keeps property values up too because safe shools are a plus in real estate. I live in a community of highly educated people and we don’t elect corrupt lawyer/politicians so we actually have honest, effective, solutions oriented government with a high % of community involvement. :-)

  5. scizzorbill says:

    The Lefties use the same tactics for gun control,as they do for climate control. Lies, data manipulation, and threats. It is really about “Control” over every aspect of the publics’ lives, including their own pathetic ‘useful idiot’ lives. The stakes are too high, and they are so close to achieving their twisted dreams, that the propaganda blast will continue unabated.

    • Blade says:

      Bingo. Exactly the same tactics. It is a variant of scapegoating which has a long history with the (D)emocratic-Socialist leftists that infect all societies. CO2 and guns are simply the new Jews and Blacks.

      Their obsessive compulsive disorder lusting for tyranny knows no bounds. In fact gun control was created by these (D)ummycrats as black control in various slave codes and black codes.

      The (D)’s think they have a chance to slip through some more black codes and hide their racist history because the latest spat of shooters have white faces. But try to tell my sister who still lives close to the hood that she can’t keep her weapons nearby for the 3am encounter with a crackhead breaking in her window. Better yet, don’t try, you will lose.

      People simply need to wakeup and call these leftist enemies exactly what they are. You’ll be surprised how fast the fold like a cheap camera when you call them the racists and traitors that they are.

  6. squid2112 says:

    WTF is an armed guard “on call” ??? .. Is there any wonder why events like this happen? Give me an F’ing break. How stupid can these people be?

    • Me says:

      Police, is Me guess.

      • TonyO of Aust says:

        Yeah police would be it – we had a home invasion here a couple of years ago (our guns were taken off us in Australia) and the cops got here about 20 mins after the scumbags left.
        Just in time……

      • Me says:

        Lucky for the scumbags, well not really, the Gobbelment made it that way like the turkeys they are, so the scumbags know they have a free ride, just like another bunch that call them selves Climate something err another….

      • TonyO of Aust says:

        Me – if I still had my shotgun, the scumbags would have been here when the cops arrived – in body anyway…

      • Me says:

        Well there is always next time, err you can get one of them signs Steven mentions here and bait the next bunch. Who knows, they may make the Darwin awards. :lol:

  7. My father has told me many times how he and his friends used to hunt as they walked to and from school every morning. This was elementary, not high school. Yet no-one took the gun into the classroom and shot it up. They simply left their guns in a safe place outside the classroom.

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