Do Guns Deter Crime?

Ask this guy, who was one of three armed guards for an ATM delivery at my hotel in Mexico last month. The other two guards had holstered pistols, with their hands on the grip at all times.

ScreenHunter_11 Dec. 20 09.59

Lefties believe that children don’t deserve as much protection as ATM machines.

About these ads

About stevengoddard

Just having fun
This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

42 Responses to Do Guns Deter Crime?

  1. Wonder how much cash shipped around the city of london, no firearms. In Ireland shipped with an armed army escort even in the smallest towns, and that’s with broke banks

    • Brian L says:

      No firearms in sight maybe? How much violent crime in Britain committed with and without firearms? In Australia which way did the crime rate go after the gun ban? Not just the gun crimes.

  2. Sundance says:

    Or ask all the armed guys at the school that Obama’s girls go to.

  3. Appell repeatedly spammed the claim that guns were not deterrents and demanded proof that they were. I pointed out that if they were not deterrents, why were they carried by law enforcement, the military and security guards? He tried to ignore this question however I continued to mock him until he responded. Eventually he came up with the idea that guns were only needed because so many guns were already in circulation.

    First problem with this response is that he is now admitting they do act as deterrents. Which is a response that makes him look like an imbecile to anyone who is not already aware of that observation.

    The second problem with the statement is that countries such as Australia have very strict gun laws with very limited firearms in circulation, yet law enforcement and the security industry, still carry weapons.

  4. Perfekt says:

    I was in Playa del Carmen, Mexico, in 2007. There were three differnt kinds of police patroling the beach and town and on top of that there were Marines with assault rifles. I felt very safe. When I am in Sweden, I sometimes visit areas where there are no armed police officers and I always prepare myself for those visits by bringing some heavy tool or other item that is not a weapon in legal terms. To me it is a weapon, and I have on one occasion used it.

    Not only do I feel safer with a weapon, I am safer.

    • Ivan says:

      When I am in Sweden, I sometimes visit areas where there are no armed police officers
      What areas would those be, I wonder?

  5. Les Johnson says:

    Sweden has a very high assualt rate. So does Scotland and the rest of the UK. You are 4 times more likley to be assaulted in Sweden, than the US. You are 7 times more likely to get beaten in Scotland, than the US.

    http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/crime_stats_oecdjan2012.pdf

    • Ivan says:

      Areas like Malmo, f’rinstance?

      • TonyO of Aust says:

        Ivan – a depressing video. The media and government are giving the Islamics all the help they could want – but don’t they realise that they too are infidels and will be dealt with accordingly when the time is right. (e.g. kitchen knife, in the gutter)

  6. Les Johnson says:

    If you are a Canadian visitor to the US, its the safest place in the world, even safer than Switzerland.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/03/07/mexico-travel-violence-statistics.html

  7. Les Johnson says:

    At least for assaults, I should add to the Switzerland statement….

    • Ivan says:

      Hmmm…can’t seem to find that in the statistics:
      Assault victims 1% [17th of 20]
      http://www.nationmaster.com/country/sz-switzerland/cri-crime

      • Les Johnson says:

        Ivan: Canadian visitors are more likely to be assualted in Switzerland, than the US….

      • Ivan says:

        Canadian visitors are more likely to be assaulted everywhere.
        I don’t think you can blame the host country for that – I think it is an attitude problem that they develop from living next door to the U.S.

      • Les Johnson says:

        Ivan: Look at the assualt rates for Canadians abroad. Those are extremely low rates. Its safer abroad, in fact, than in Canada. And the safest place is the US.

        Thus, your suggestion that Canadian attitudes are responsible for assualts, is shown to be ludicrous. And more than a bit trollish.

      • Ivan says:

        Thus, your suggestion that Canadian attitudes are responsible for assualts, is shown to be ludicrous. And more than a bit trollish.
        I’m just struggling to follow incoherent logic.

      • Les Johnson says:

        Ivan: You have asserted that canadians are more likely to be assaulted overseas, just due to the fact they are canadians, and a poor attitude they pick up from the yanks. No proof, and lots of numbers I gave suggest otherwise.

        The assualt rate of canadian vistitors is lower than the national rate of all the countries visited. Often by several orders of magnitude.

        It is you who are struggling with the logic.

      • Ivan says:

        Let me see if I can follow the logic trail:

        First – in a thread about “Do Guns Deter Crime?”:
        If you are a Canadian visitor to the US, its the safest place in the world, even safer than Switzerland.
        No…, it’s:
        At least for assaults, I should add to the Switzerland statement….
        Umm.., no, it’s:
        Canadian visitors are more likely to be assualted in Switzerland, than the US….

        However, these so-called “statistics” are completely meaningless. When you actually dig into them they clearly state that they only compile statistics for those Canadians abroad who actually report the crime to Canadian authorities. Small wonder then that the numbers are so small.

      • Les Johnson says:

        Ivan: so you still believe that the Canadians are at fault for the assaults, then? Biased, much? But please, show me the numbers to prove your case.

        The data I presented was to show the relative safety of the US; both for residents and for vistors. The one site shows that compared to the OECD, the US is one of the safest places in terms of violent assaults, for residents. The other reference shows the same for visitors.

        Let me posit a theory. You read my post on Canucks, but assumed the data was for the country, Switzterland, as whole. Rather than admit you had misread the post, you tried a poor joke about Canadians. Now you are forced to defend an untenable position.

      • Ivan says:

        Apart from comparing apples with oranges, did you even read the CBC article you posted, or just look at the graph?
        It’s difficult to determine the true security of Canadians when travelling abroad because of limited available data.
        ..and…
        The rates are based on the number of assault and murder cases reported to the Department of Foreign Affairs from 2000 to 2010, compared with visitor figures for overnight trips from Statistics Canada.

        Hmmm. Beats the shit out of me how anyone could possibly make the mistake of thinking that you were actually talking about Switzerland with this comment:
        If you are a Canadian visitor to the US, its the safest place in the world, even safer than Switzerland.
        Maybe it’s just an English as a First Language problem.

        The only thing any of this proves (if anything) is that Canadians need to lighten up and develop a sense of humour. If they did, they’d probably get into less trouble when they travel overseas.

    • Les Johnson says:

      Hmmm. Beats the shit out of me how anyone could possibly make the mistake of thinking that you were actually talking about Switzerland with this comment:
      “If you are a Canadian visitor to the US, its the safest place in the world, even safer than Switzerland.”

      Maybe it’s just an English as a First Language problem.

      Possibly. Goverish Ruskie?

      My point was that the US is safer, for residents, than most OECD countries, which was in the 1st link. Visitors, at least of the Canadian variety, are safer in the US than anywhere else, even Switzerland. That was the second link. Then you posted a link to Switzrerlands over all violent crime rate. (which I had already done in the firts link). You are the one comparing apples to peaches.

      The only thing any of this proves (if anything) is that Canadians need to lighten up and develop a sense of humour. If they did, they’d probably get into less trouble when they travel overseas.

      As shown by the numbers, Canadians get into very little REPORTED trouble overseas. Not sure why you keep on about this. Canadians, from my experience, are very adept at recognizing humor. Your attempt at it was just that; an attempt.

      From an earlier post:

      First – in a thread about “Do Guns Deter Crime?”
      1. If you are a Canadian visitor to the US, its the safest place in the world, even safer than Switzerland.
      No…, it’s:
      At least for assaults, I should add to the Switzerland statement….
      Umm.., no, it’s:
      2. Canadian visitors are more likely to be assualted in Switzerland, than the US….

      You realize that sentence 1 and 2 mean the same thing, right? That the US is safer than Switzerland, at least for Canadian visitors?

  8. Les Johnson says:

    I note from your spelling that you are probably from the UK or Canada. Or learned English there.

    I am not sure where you got your antagonism to Canadians from, though…

    • Ivan says:

      …or possibly Australia, or NZ, or Hong Kong or South Africa .. or several other places.

      My antagonism is towards people who attempt to link together two unrelated data sets, and then use incoherent logic-by-installment and ambiguous sentence structure to try and make a highly debatable (and largely unprovable) point,

      Now, if you had said something like:
      “Off topic, but according to two completely unrelated studies, the second of which (by the author’s own admission) contains data which is incomplete and highly subjective, we can potentially draw an inference that Canadians travelling abroad are less likely to be assaulted in the U.S. or Switzerland than they are in their own country..
      then I might have some idea at just what though processes were rattling around in your noodle, and be better positioned to comment.

  9. Les Johnson says:

    Ivan: I don’t know how I could be any clearer. The US is safer than most of the OECD, according to the one study I posted, at least in terms of assaults. The US is the safest place to be, for Canadians travelling, according to the other study.

    You turned that into an attack on Canadians, and an attack on my logic. You failed to show the flaw in my logic, or how Canadians are responsible for being attacked (in spite of the extremely low numbers).

    So, please show me how, according to study 1, that the US is not safer than most of the OECD. You have already agreed that Canadians are safest, in terms of assaults, in the US than the rest of the world. I would also like some proof that Canadians are responsible for the assualts they do suffer overseas.

    • Ivan says:

      I don’t know how I could be any clearer.
      In fact, I don’t know how you could be any more obtuse. I have already pointed out (twice) that the second “story” you cite is (by the author’s own admission) incomplete and highly subjective – and as such it bears zero relationship to the objective OECD study that you also cite – and furthermore it is completely unscientific to simply “splice” the second noddy “story” (at no point in the CBC article is it referred to as a “study”) onto the first study, and on that basis to then claim that “the US is the safest place to be, for Canadians travelling.” But you seem incapable or unwilling to absorb these fundamental details.

      You have already agreed that Canadians are safest, in terms of assaults, in the US than the rest of the world.
      I did? Where would that have been, I wonder?

      So, please show me how, according to study 1, that the US blah blah blah..
      It’s not incumbent upon me to show anything. This is your dog and pony show – it is up to you to prove your point. I’m only here to point out bullshit when I see it.

      • Les Johnson says:

        Ivan: you seem to be getting a bit testy. You really should cut back on the caffeine.

        In fact, I don’t know how you could be any more obtuse. I have already pointed out (twice) that the second “story” you cite is (by the author’s own admission) incomplete and highly subjective – and as such it bears zero relationship to the objective OECD study that you also cite – and furthermore it is completely unscientific to simply “splice” the second noddy “story” (at no point in the CBC article is it referred to as a “study”) onto the first study, and on that basis to then claim that “the US is the safest place to be, for Canadians travelling.” But you seem incapable or unwilling to absorb these fundamental details.

        I never tried to link the two posts. They are separate posts, each showing the relative safety of the US, using different metrics. Which is what this blog piece is on, no?

        The CBC article is not a study, no. But it is based on government statistics.

        It’s not incumbent upon me to show anything. This is your dog and pony show – it is up to you to prove your point. I’m only here to point out bullshit when I see it.

        If you call “bullshit”, you have to show why it is “bullshit”. So far, you have doen this without much success. So lets try this: You agree with the Civitas study, apparently. So, show me stats that disprove that the US is not safer for Canadian visitors, and that Canadians are responsible for the assaults they do suffer overseas.

        If you can show me the numbers, then I will agree with your assesment of “bullshit”.

      • Ivan says:

        I never tried to link the two posts.
        ..but then 20 minutes ago:
        The US is safer than most of the OECD, according to the one study I posted, at least in terms of assaults. The US is the safest place to be, for Canadians travelling, according to the other study.

        The CBC article is not a study, no.
        So .. twenty minutes ago it was a “study” (above) – and now it’s not?

        Are you a complete moron – or is this all just an act that you are putting on for my benefit?

      • Ivan says:

        You really should cut back on the caffeine.
        Sorry … I missed that one.
        Humour – Right ?

  10. Les Johnson says:

    Ivan: your

    “I never tried to link the two posts.”
    ..but then 20 minutes ago:
    “The US is safer than most of the OECD, according to the one study I posted, at least in terms of assaults. The US is the safest place to be, for Canadians travelling, according to the other study. ”

    They are not linked. Two different data sets, on two differnt metrics. They share the same paragraph is all they have in common.

    “The CBC article is not a study, no.”
    So .. twenty minutes ago it was a “study” (above) – and now it’s not?

    My mistatement. The article is based on government data, and is not a study.

    Are you a complete moron – or is this all just an act that you are putting on for my benefit?

    Possibly. Defintely, according to my ex-wife.

    Now, your turn. Show me that any of the data I posted is “bullshit”, with data from another source.

  11. Les Johnson says:

    Great non-answer. I will try again:

    Show, with data, that any of the data I posted is “bullshit”.

    Show, with data, that Canadians are responsible for assaults when they travel.

    Wifes address? Sure. Not her current address of course, just her future one.

    Bolgia 1
    666 Hells Gate

    Tell her Les sent you….

  12. Ivan says:

    Show, with data, that any of the data I posted is “bullshit”.
    It’s all bullshit. If you had a brain – which obviously you don’t – you would have some done some very basic research on your gubmint “data”.
    For instance, a rudimentary search would have shown you that your “bullshit” CBC story is a rework of a similar “bullshit” story they published the year before.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/01/27/f-statistics-canadian-travellers-violence-abroad.html
    In the previous year’s “bullshit” story, the “data” quoted varies wildly from the “bullshit” data you quoted from this year’s story.
    For instance:
    - in the 2011 story, India is the top offender with 7.5 – doesn’t even feature in 2012
    - ditto with South Africa
    - in the 2012 story, Mainland China is the top offender with 7.759 – doesn’t even feature in 2011
    - ditto with Australia.

    Take a deep breath – that smell you can smell is pure, unadulterated bullshit. Brought to you by the Canadian government.

  13. Les Johnson says:

    Ivan: you really have a dislike for the Canadians. I imagine their deep chagrin over this.

    One of the stories uses a 5 year average, the other 11. Note also that SA went to zero in 2008. But the major problem with your assertion is that the CBC used all the data. Do you have the original datasets?

    Now, lets look at the data on each site:
    If you look at the numbers on each chart, they are nearly identical. I looked at the Dominican Republic, the UK, Mexico and Cuba. The rates are nearly identical. The differences will be due to a 11 year average vs a 5 year, and rounding differences (3 digits on yours, 1 on mine), and possibly a difference in the datasets, as I can’t find the originals.

    Now for the money shot: from the site you posted:
    Among the safest destinations is also the most popular one: the United States.

    So now we have two different data sets, one from you, one from me, with data that agrees, and with data that says the US is one of the safest places in the world for a Canadian to visit.

    BTW, I am still waiting for data showing that Canucks are responsible for the rare beatings they do get overseas.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s