Vikings actively farmed Greenland 1000 years ago, but our top climate scientists say that current temperatures are much warmer. The growing season when the Vikings lived there must have been about 15 minutes.
Disrupting the Borg is expensive and time consuming!
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Yeah, and they, every single one of them, left Greenland when the Little Ice Age came upon them. And now temperatures had been recovering from the LIA. Now temps are dropping. The global warming theory is baloney.
There’s nothing wrong with the climate, and CO2 has nothing to do with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK_WyvfcJyg
Temperatures are dropping?
Could you please expand on that?
GISS says the last 10 yrs (120 months) were 0.19 C warmer than the 10 years before. Even just the last 10 years had a trend of +0.01 C/decade, according to their measurements.
The trend of the lower troposphere has been +0.02 C/decade over the last 10 years, according to the scientists at UAH. Do you have an independent analysis that differs from theirs?
(Over the last 5 years it’s been +0.42 C/decade, according to their numbers. The last 15? +0.05 C/decade. So I’m sure you must have your own measurements…..)
If you have lurking long on this blog, you know how GHCN &GISS have been busily cooking the books. As for a trend of 0.02 degrees per decade, what are the error bars on those numbers? Humm?
Eddie: Actually I know no such thing. I do know that every time a number changes people like you think it’s fraud, without ever bothering to understand or the change.
So do you have any proof of “cooking?” Honest proof — if so, I’d be interested. But if you only think everything is a conspiracy — all against you — you should complain to someone else.
@David: You want cooking? Try this:
http://principia-scientific.org/supportnews/latest-news/142-top-scientists-vent-on-nasas-sub-prime-greenhouse-gas-hoaxer
LLP: principia-scientific.org is a comic book.
Please show some real, peer-reviewed science….
David Appell
Only a global warmer would trust GISS (James Hansen) data
Let’s taker at look at how James Hansen data shows more warming than other data sets:
PART 1
PART 2
@David: “principia-scientific.org is a comic book. Please show some real, peer-reviewed science….”
1) I posted the peer-reviewed science below BEFORE posting this link and it didn’t make a difference … you simply dismissed it. This happens EVERY time I deal with warmists (I did this with Kevin O’Neill and his line was, “Am I supposed to be impressed?”). They howl for peer-reviewed research and when I provide it, they always find a way to dismiss it. What does that tell you?
2) You dismiss the site as a comic book. I don’t think you even read the article. Do you even realize how many NASA scientists are speaking out against James Hansen? When people speak out, does it have to be peer-reviewed when you write an article about it?
Considering the naturally unstable and often inhospitable nature of earth’s climate, our recent climate has been unusually benign and stable.
good point
“The summer climate in the North Atlantic about the year 1000”
“Roots of plants and deep Viking graves found in South Greenland in soil that is now tjaele (permafrost or permanently frozen ground) indicate that the annual mean temperature must have been 2-4°C warmer than now….”
http://www.canadianmysteries.ca/sites/vinland/othermysteries/climate/4157en.html
Greenland has an area of 2.17 Mkm2 — 0.4% of the globe. And I suspect the Vikings’ crops were on a far smaller proportion than that.
So could you be clearer on how exactly their story is a stand-in for the entire globe?
Where does Steven Goddard state that Greenland is a stand-in for the entire globe? Be specific.
It is not implied?
So, Steven Goddard did not say that? Thank you for admitting your lie.
Of course, it is implied in all denier discussions of the MWP.
@ David: Are you saying the MWP wasn’t global? According to recent research, the MWP extended to Antartica (here is the abstract of “An ikaite record of late Holocene climate at the Antarctic Peninsula” by Lu et al, published in “Earth and Planetary Science Letters”, Feb. 25, 2012).
“Calcium carbonate can crystallize in a hydrated form as ikaite at low temperatures. The hydration water in ikaite grown in laboratory experiments records the δ18O of ambient water, a feature potentially useful for reconstructing δ18O of local seawater. We report the first downcore δ18O record of natural ikaite hydration waters and crystals collected from the Antarctic Peninsula (AP), a region sensitive to climate fluctuations.
We are able to establish the zone of ikaite formation within shallow sediments, based on porewater chemical and isotopic data. Having constrained the depth of ikaite formation and δ18O of ikaite crystals and hydration waters, we are able to infer local changes in fjord δ18O versus time during the late Holocene. This ikaite record qualitatively supports that both the Medieval Warm Period and Little Ice Age extended to the Antarctic
Peninsula.”
By the way, I have read the whole paper (a friend of mine at the University of Toronto sent me the PDF file).
P.S. Antarctica, not Antartica (typo … 4 year-old drawing on my curriculum documents as I was typing).
My question was about how and why a small portion of Greenland is supposed to represent the entire globe….
Does that research say the MWP *extended* to Antarctica, or that it *occurred* in Antarctica. There is a big difference….
Would you please clarify?
Does that research say the MWP *extended* to Antarctica, or that it *occurred* in Antarctica. There is a big difference….
Not really that much difference. Go ahead and pick one.
Sorry, but ~ 1/2 the circumference of the Earth is a “very big difference.” (Perhaps you failed basic geometry?)
@David: “Does that research say the MWP *extended* to Antarctica, or that it *occurred* in Antarctica. There is a big difference…. ”
Please re-read the abstract … it clearly uses the phrase “extended to the Antarctic
Peninsula”. Clarification provided as per your request.
LL: So you accept whatever the abstract of a paper says it says?
Interesting…. (And useful).
And Toshinmack, you don’t do the same.
@David: “So you accept whatever the abstract of a paper says it says?”
When I first posted the abstract, you couldn’t even extract the phrase “extended to” from it. Now you accuse me of accepting whatever the abstract says when I CLEARLY wrote underneath it that I had read the whole paper. Do you only see what you want to see?
Well let’s see. Medieval warm period in Greenland and Antarctica as well as Europe, North America, South Africa, India, China, Indochina, Japan, Korea, Polynesia, New Zealand, Australia.
~ 1/2 the circumference of the Earth, yeah.
So if that’s the difference you imagine between “extended to” and “occurred in”, then by all means let it be extended to Antarctica.
Now make your argument. Show us a place that the MWP didn’t extend to.
Hansen’s models show a large polar amplification at all high latitudes of both hemispheres.
It is interesting how alarmists conveniently forget this fact when discussing the MWP. Does Mann get an exclusion from Hansen’s model?
Citation(s), please?
Hey David,
why do you need ‘citations’? You know everything. You already know them.
The same way Yamal is a stand-in for the entire globe.
Please quote for me — the paper(s), and equation number(s) — the weighting of Yamal proxies in the calculation of the last millenium’s average global surface temperature.
Don’t keep me waiting, ok eddie?
Temperatures must be dropping, Alfis hasn’t put any washing out since 5th May; it took him 3 days to dry his washing then. (Check Alfis’ monthly overview)
Dear David Appell,
Apparently we missed the bit where you apologised to Anthony Watts for callously smearing his mother. Is it normal for warmists to personally attack the family members of people who disagree with them?
You must be another idiot whiner unable to understand the concept of “metaphor.” Do you have a dictionary handy?
And now some good news.
Spanish gay penguins to become parents
http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2012/05/22/spanish-gay-penguins-to-become-parents/
The Medieval Warm Period in Southeast Uruguay … and Beyond
http://www.nipccreport.org/articles/2012/may/8may2012a2.html
Data from the Ross Sea region of Antarctica acquired via analysis of the top fifty meters of a 180-meter-long ice core that had been extracted from the ice divide of Victoria Lower Glacier in the northernmost McMurdo Dry Valleys, converted to temperature data by means of a temperature-isotope relationship developed by Steig et al. (1998) from data obtained from the Taylor Dome ice core record.
http://www.co2science.org/data/mwp/studies/l2_victoriaglacier.php
Who funds co2science.org?
Who funds the $100 billion/year climate alarmism industry?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-17898323
David you’re right. For the first time in history Earth is doomed.because of humans doing bad things like … breathing. Earth would be much better with less people, less co2 , more cold, no medicines ,no refrigerators, no cheap energy no cars etc Survival of the fittest. Just hope to be one of them.
Robertvdl: who funds co2science.org?
David Appell,
Who funds you?
Who funds me? My income derives solely from those who pay for my creativity:
http://www.davidappell.com/publications.html
and my investments in the free market:
http://www.nyse.com/
http://www.nasdaq.com/
Now then: Who funds co2science.org?
David Appell
Since you are concerned about money, how much money does Al Gore make from global warming? How much is James Hansen paid by environmental groups to show up at environmental protests?
Did David Appell ever pause to wonder about the non-homogeneity of ‘global’ warming in the 20th century? The spatial heterogeneity of warming, however, becomes a matter of great scientific curiousity.
Who ever said climate change wouldn’t be regional?
Propose a physical mechanism which would cause Greenland and Northern Europe to unilaterally show dramatic warming for a period of 300 years. The concept is non-sensical to say the least.
First define “Northern Europe.”
And then define “dramatic warming.”
And then prove that these regions has 300 years of it.
Then I can answer your question.
David Appell
There is evidence of a Medieval Warm Period from all 5 Continents. You know everything. Why didn’t you know that?
spatial heterogeneity of medieval warming, that is
I see Toshinmack is back, I wonder why?
Stocked up on Ritalin.
Steven, how does Toshinmack answer your question here when it was unanswered all night, but now it was answered about 7 minutes before my first comment of the night?
stevengoddard says:
May 26, 2012 at 1:44 am
David Appell,
Who funds you?
David Appell says:
May 26, 2012 at 2:04 am
Who funds me? My income derives solely from those who pay for my creativity:
http://www.davidappell.com/publications.html
and my investments in the free market:
http://www.nyse.com/
http://www.nasdaq.com/
Now then: Who funds co2science.org?
Now My first post of the night was this one here,
Me says:
May 26, 2012 at 2:11 am
I see Toshinmack is back, I wonder why?
So how was Toshinmack able to make that post that didn’t show up most of the night and all of a sudden there it was 7 minutes before me first post of the night?
Three links but his comment in moderation cue.
put his comment in moderation.
What’s the 100 % safe way of making a warmist simply not reply and leave the thread.
Well, show him that the scientists of WG1 of the IPCC discard the GCM’s as error-laden unreliable approximations to something they don’t fully understand.
WG1 of the IPCC says GCM’s cannot simulate the QBO.
http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/tar/wg1/279.htm
David Appell will not be able to formulate an argument against this. Warmists never answer me when I point out the flaws in the models.
Because they don’t know a damned thing about modeling – at least the warmist fanboys don’t. The warmist modelers will also ignore such arguments on blogs because they can’t afford to lose the argument.
This is ‘citations’, David Appell style. “I buy my stocks on NASDAQ, http://www.nasdaq,.com. I buy my groceries from Walmart. http:/www.walmart.com.”
Surely the addition of the URLS geatly enhanced the specificity of the claims being made, also their scientificality