This is what melting ice in Greenland looks like. There is a 100 mile wide strip on the southwest coast of Greenland which is covered with dirt and soot and is melting. It does this ever summer.
The rest of the ice sheet (95% +) is zinc-oxide white, and is not melting. The demarcation line between melting and not melting is very clear.
When these experts talk about unprecedented melting, you can be pretty certain that they either didn’t pass third grade or they are spewing propaganda rather than science.
Hey Steven , we now know that the radical agw scum that have weaseled their way into control of the various government agencies will tell any lie for their cause if they think they can get away with it . And when they are caught , as you catch them everyday , they just brazen it out as though it doesn’t matter .
Yep. Proof that NASA still has its head up its a$$
No Steven. You’re talking about melting the entire snow cover back to bare ice, which can be detected at visible wavelengths. The melt occurring in the centre of the sheet is melting of the top layer of snow only. It drains down into the compacting firn beneath and refreezes, although I believe that during this process there’s still a thin film of water on the surface. Moreover, the melting changes the shape of the snow crystals and makes them less reflective at some wavelengths. Overall, this melt process is visible at infra-red and microwave wavelengths, but not (much) at visible wavelengths.
Here is a blog from some scientists that are actually there, boots-on-the-ground at the moment. They have stood on the surface and dug cores through the melted / refrozen layer at Summit, Greenland. The linked entry includes a picture of the actual firn sample showing the melt layer.
Until and unless you do the same, put a sock in it and stop accusing people of stupidity / lying / falsifying data, or whatever other calumny you choose to throw.
I have been a skier for over 50 years, and I can assure you that any significant melt on the surface of the snow dramatically reduces the albedo. Snowflakes have much higher albedo than water droplets or reformed ice.
And the actual picture of the melt layer in the firn? Remember that the reformed ice lies under the surface of the melting snow in these conditions.
Are you suggesting that melt can occur without damaging the snowflakes on the surface?
It damages them, lowering the albedo by a few percent (rather more at non-visible wavelengths), and the water drains downwards and re-freezes under the surface. This is quite clear in the photo.
I take it that you have never skied on corn snow.
I like your approach of melt detection by comparing sat pictures with tin oxid.
I would recommned to write a paper for this journal.
You might want to look up the difference between zinc and tin.
Uuups my fault; still neither would work.
Peter Ellis , what agencies scientists are there with their boots on the ground ? You see , the scientists advocating agw have a credablility problem. We know from their past history that they will lie and cherry pick to achieve the end they desire . The universities are corrupted with these liars and they can no longer be believed . That is the result of their own making as lie to me once it is your fault , lie to me twice it is my fault. So put a sock in it yourself. I see the weather and I call it climate because I can believe the weather where as I don’t believe you any further than I can throw you. You people have brought this on yourselves.
You can’t be honest about anything, can you? Surface melting is not the same thing as the entire sheet melting. But you know that.
You just don;t like admitting it.
I rather consider this as a comprehension problem.
No doubt you are having comprehension problems. Any significant melt greatly reduces the albedo of the snow. Everyone who lives around snow knows this.
And you are one of the few to estimate this from a sat picture without the original data.
Wy don’t you have the guts and paintbrush the areas of melt in the pictures posted?
You might have been skiing a lot. Did you ever dig a snowpit to look at the snow not only superficially?
If there has been any significant melt, the snow surface gets dark – until it snows again.
I don’t think MFKBoulder realises how clueless the people he is trying to defend are. If the penny ever dropped with him, he would be quite shocked.
Whenever I see the word ‘unprecedented’, a big red flag appears before my mind’s eye. The Green Alarmist’s should refrain from using the word, as it points out their stoopidididity. Unprecedented means: never occurred before–NEVER! Normal summer meltback has occurred before, and will happen again, and again. And yet the con job continues.
May be a few millimeters melting is not impressive enough and may be satellites can detect melting events using wavelengths not visible to human eyes. However, the GFS model forecasts again temps above melting point on top of kilometers of ice for Saturday and Sunday. Hopefully, the conditions showing up every 150 years or so until now do not establish a habit of appearing every week or so. Once in a lifetime should be enough.
It has been 150 years since the last one and 150 years since the one before that. There is zero evidence that anything out of the ordinary is going on.
Come on, Steven, you’re attention span must be longer than a few days. We’ll met here again, when Greenland shows another near full surface melting event and we’re both still able to write and read. As said next week is far to soon. Until that you’re right, nothing ordinary happend, just a bit unexpected. Keep pressing thumbs.
You might want to think this through a little more carefully. There are no markers set in the snow during summer to be able to tell if a 150 year old event covered one hour or one month. The only way to distinguish the age of an event is by layers of winter snowpack.
I will be capturing summit webcam screenshots every hour this weekend, so that I can make fun of all this nonsense.
Even though, we have seen some ice loss up in Greenland and the arctic this year, it is being outweighed by the increase in sea ice and ice over the continent of Antarctica. As long as Antarctica isn’t alarmingly melting, I doubt rapid seas level rise will occur anytime soon, considering over 90% of the world’s ice resides there.
Why do you think there has been ice loss in Greenland? They got metres of snow last winter.
Yep, the Arctic AO has spoken, Give it up Steven! BWAAAAHAHAHA! After all it is the Arctic AO. 😆
Yeah Steven, I can see why they melted so much, mostly due to natural variability. Then add to the fact all of the snow that’s fallen in antarctica, that hasn’t melted.
Extreme, Unusual Cold Deviation Of -20°K Now Occurring Over Antarctica
Yeah, and the silence over the mainstream media is deafening.
is it due to the exploitation of the earth by means of usage of non-bio-degradable matter like plastic?
imagine there is a proposal to make the plastic road!
we need to reinvent the modern science to renovate the present status of the earth,
to safely hand it over to the generations to come.
in continuation of the earlier reply i think we need to harness the nuclear fusion energy as there is enough exhaustion of solar energy by the sun over the period of the origin of the milky way galaxy.