Learning To Think Like A Progressive

If Cliven Bundy were a “Native American” whose family had raised livestock since the 19th century on land in Nevada, progressives would be screaming bloody murder about persecution by the evil white men.

But because Bundy is white, progressives scream bloody murder about the evil white man running his cattle on government property.

About stevengoddard

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67 Responses to Learning To Think Like A Progressive

  1. Mike D says:

    Of if he were not American, but an illegal alien, they’d be clamoring over giving him in state tuition, food and housing benefits, driver’s licenses, and eventually voting rights.

  2. What does a deadbeat armed moron have to do with science?

    • Do they have a special training program to teach progressives like you to froth mindless hatred?

    • The truth is the bottom line in both. What does your comment have to do with the truth?

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Why do you have to bring Joe Biden into the discussion?

    • Hugh K says:

      Overlooking your hateful mischaracterization of Mr. Bundy, the former stand-off with the BLM doesn’t have anything to do with TRUE science but rather propping up the tortoise, (much like using the polar bear for political reasons) to disguise a blatant land grab attempt by corrupt politicians and their political cronies in Nevada. Er….that’;s kind of the point of Steve’s post….so let’s deal with that.
      The BLM assault on Bundy’s private and personal property is all about politics. Although you obviously prefer character assassination to facts, here are a few facts; “A tortoise isn’t the reason why BLM is harassing a 67 year-old rancher. They want his land. The tortoise wasn’t of concern when Harry Reid worked BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore. Whittemore was convicted of illegal campaign contributions to Senator Reid.
      Reid’s former senior adviser is now the head of BLM. Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests. BLM has proven that they’ve a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they’ve had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area.”

      Now you have to ask yourself; Do I agree with the tactic of using false science for personal profit? Well do you, hater?

  3. bobmaginnis says:

    It’s not like the deal is so bad for public lands ranchers, either. Right now they are paying $1.35 a month for each cow/calf combination eating our grass. By comparison, the average grazing fee on private land in the West is $16.80 a month, according to the Congressional Research Service, and ranges between $2.28 and $150 on state lands in the region.

    The federal lands grazing program is like supercharged food stamps for bovines. And it is massively subsidized. As the U.S. Government Accountability Office reported in 2005, the program brought in $21 million in fees paid by ranchers, but cost $144 million to run.

    If Cliven Bundy had paid his grazing fees, it would have narrowed that gap. But not by much.
    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/04/17/3428051/nevada-rancher-re-run/

    • So you are good with government sending heavily armed paramilitary units to collect debts.

    • Jason Calley says:

      $1.35 a month? Not a bad deal, if you can get it. Still it would be more reasonable at nothing per month. After all, his family bought the property over a hundred years ago and then had it seized without payment by the US government in the 1930s. If someone steals your property, what is a fair price for them to rent it back to you?

    • Ernest Bush says:

      If you think government grassland is your grassland try getting anything from the government after it collects the fee. The government only ever takes if you are a citizen in good standing. The BLM mostly ties up useful land for no particular purpose to keep it away from citizens unless they pay the government for its use, assuming that’s allowed.

    • Mike D says:

      I heard they’ve spent $3 million on the efforts to collect, for a $1 million debt which is mostly interest and penalties. That’s hardly a way to spend tax dollars. Plus, who’s fault is it that they spend $144 million on a $21 million program? If you want to start pointing out programs where they make less money than they hand out, there are billion dollar programs to start with, like say the DOE loan program to renewable energy companies. Or say farm subsidies. Those are actual cash out versus letting some cows eat grass that doesn’t actually cost money to grow.

    • One has to ask why other ranchers who are struggling to pay their fees are supporting Bundy. There’s a little saying about “walk a mile in their shoes.”

    • David A says:

      For decades there was zero cost, as the program did not exist, the BLM did not exist. It now cost that much why? Because of massive bureaucratic overreach by the Fed.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      What, exactly, has BLM done or contributed for the maintenance of the graze lands in question?

      That’s one of Bundy’s biggest complaints: BLM hasn’t used graze fees for land management, but rather for buying/forcing out all of the ranchers.

    • Hugh K says:

      “Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his heard’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch (my edit – reduced down from around a 1000 head of cattle to around 150 head). Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying.”
      So why is the BLM targeting Bundy? Bundy is not bankrolling Reid. “Reid’s former senior adviser is now the head of BLM. Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests.”
      Source – http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/

  4. bobmaginnis says:

    Steve,
    I’m not good with the police state, but the Feds wisely left after the crazies came en mass. They didn’t want another Waco while the Bundy supporters wanted to sacrifice the women and children. Meanwhile:

    Cliven Bundy’s anti-government act has inspired a new event from one of the people who’s involved in Burning Man. Welcome to Bundy Fest!
    Facebook:
    Come celebrate TOTAL FREEDOM at BUNDYFEST, just across the road from the Cliven Bundy Ranch, in Bunkerville, Nevada! 240 bands, 24 hours a day, for a SOLID ROCKIN’ MONTH!!!!
    *NO PERMITS REQUIRED
    *CAMP ABSOLUTELY ANYWHERE
    *FULL NUDITY NOT A PROBLEM…………………..
    http://crooksandliars.com/2014/04/come-celebrate-bundy-fest-2014

    • Ernest Bush says:

      The feds never do anything wisely. They are probably gearing up for a bigger show of force having been outgunned.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Given the way that so many people so willingly lap up the government/media (but I repeat myself…) propaganda about this situation, it is entirely unsurprising that Global Warming, er Climate Change, has assumed known-fact status.

  5. bobmaginnis says:

    Steve,
    I’m not good with the police state, but the Feds wisely left after the crazies came en mass. They didn’t want another Waco while the Bundy supporters wanted to sacrifice the women and children. Meanwhile:

    Cliven Bundy’s anti-government act has inspired a new event from one of the people who’s involved in Burning Man. Welcome to Bundy Fest!
    Facebook:
    Come celebrate TOTAL FREEDOM at BUNDYFEST, just across the road from the Cliven Bundy Ranch, in Bunkerville, Nevada! 240 bands, 24 hours a day, for a SOLID ROCKIN’ MONTH!!!!
    *NO PERMITS REQUIRED
    *CAMP ABSOLUTELY ANYWHERE
    *FULL NUDITY NOT A PROBLEM…………………..
    (I removed link URL to see if it would post…)

  6. philjourdan says:

    I thought the government was the people?

    • Jason Calley says:

      Apparently someone at the BLM thinks that “the government is the people” as long as the people do what their masters order them to.

  7. The middle class must stop the ruling class from enslavement at some point. Maybe this is the point.

  8. Gail Combs says:

    bobmaginnis says:
    April 22, 2014 at 12:39 am

    Steve,
    I’m not good with the police state, but the Feds wisely left after the crazies came en mass. They didn’t want another Waco while the Bundy supporters wanted to sacrifice the women and children…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No the BLM threw in the towel after it was all over the internet that Harry Reid was getting $$$ from the Chinese for setting up renewable energy farms on BLM land and they wanted Bundy’s ranch and grazing land. BLM did not go after Bundy until Harry Reid’s long time aide became head of the Bureau of Land Management .

    “… within hours of Reid’s name being attached to the raid, the BLM decided to back down …”

    In other words it was all over the news (internet) that something stunk to high heavens BEFORE the media had a chance to bury it like a cat burying feces.

    No way could this be made to look like the FEDS protection the rights of Americans.

    • Jason Calley says:

      Gail, yes. More and more people are starting to realize that public property is being stolen for sweetheart deals for the well connected. This has also been going on for less obvious public properties, things like patent rights and intellectual property. When governmental institutions (like NASA) develop new inventions, the patent rights should belong to We The People. Instead, many of the rights are sold off to private companies and to foreign nations. People can see when a port or a park is sold — but who notices when an intangible, abstract thing like patent rights are sold off?

      • Gail Combs says:

        Jason, They have been DRIVING people off their PRIVATE LAND and not paying fair price. This is just a modern day version of the UK Land Clearances that drove a lot of people out of the UK to the USA .

        For Example Antelope Valley Ca.

        First Story:

        L.A. County’s Private Property War: Jun 23 2011

        In Llano, in the middle of the Southern California high desert, a bewhiskered Jacques Dupuis stands in front of what was once his home. His laid-back second wife, Marcelle, her long, silver hair blowing in the breeze, takes a drag on her Marlboro Red as they walk inside and, in thick French Canadian accents, recount the day in 2007 when the government came calling. “That’s the seat I have to offer you,” she tells a visitor, motioning to the exposed, dusty wooden floor planks in what was once a cozy cabin where Jacques spent much of his life, raising his daughter with his first wife….

        “This building is not permitted — everything must go.” Normally sassy, Marcelle handed over her ID — even her green card, just in case. Stepping out, she realized that her 1,000-square-foot cabin was surrounded by men with drawn guns. “You have no right to be here,” one informed her. Baffled and shaking with fear, she called her daughter — please come right away.

        As her ordeal wore on, she heard one agent, looking inside their comfortable cabin, say to another: “This one’s a real shame — this is a real nice one.”

        A “shame” because the authorities eventually would enact some of the most powerful rules imaginable against rural residents: the order to bring the home up to current codes or dismantle the 26-year-old cabin, leaving only bare ground.…..

        In order to clear the title on their land, the Dupuises are spending what would have been peaceful retirement days dismantling every board and nail of their home — by hand — because they can’t afford to hire a crew.

        Tough code enforcement has been ramped up in these unincorporated areas of L.A. County, leaving the iconoclasts who chose to live in distant sectors of the Antelope Valley frightened, confused and livid….
        [The tale continues for 8 pages and includes a video]
        http://www.laweekly.com/2011-06-23/news/l-a-county-s-private-property-war/

        So why has L.A. County suddenly gone after the people who have been living quietly in Antelope Valley for years about codes? Especially since most of these places SHOULD be grandfathered.

        For the exact same reason that Bundy is being run off his land. Someone with political connections wants the land and wants it CHEAP so the use US tax paper dollars to drive the people off their land.

        The second story:

        SunPower: Twice the Green Jobs Scandal for the Obama Administration of Solyndra October 21st, 2011
        Despite most of the media’s heroic efforts to keep the American public away from the word “Solyndra,” word of the massive scandal is starting to seep into the groundwater of public consciousness. Wait until they get a load of SunPower.Not to beat Solyndra into the ground, but, we just note in utter disbelief that earlier this month, the Washington Post reported that newly released e-mails show “the Obama administration’s Energy Department was poised to give Solyndra a second taxpayer loan of $469 million last year, even as the company’s financial situation grew increasingly dire.”….

        Now we find another green technology and energy company receiving a large slice of American taxpayer dollars as part of a program the Obama administration set up to funnel money to assist green companies — SunPower.

        Not Again? Yes, Again. And Even Worse.
        …In November of 2005 SunPower went public, and in January 2007 SunPower and PowerLight became one entity. Then in 2008 SunPower signed an agreement with PG&E to build the world’s largest – 250 MW – photovoltaic power plant, set to begin energy delivery in 2010….

        “SunPower admits in its SEC filings that it is very dependent on government, without which its revenues would drop. It also says in its SEC filings that it doesn’t have long-term contracts with customers and could lose customers without warning, and that a big slug of its revenues depends on a limited number of customers.”

        And the loan was made only hours before the DOE 1705 loan program expired at the end of Fiscal Year 2011 on Sept. 30. That the loan was made at all beggars belief, until one follows the whiffs of corruption surrounding the deal.

        Democrat Rep. George Miller’s son, George Miller IV, is SunPower’s top lobbyist, and he was paid $178,000 to lobby on behalf of the company. And as Fox reported, “the elder Miller, a powerful California Democrat, toured the plant last October with Interior Secretary Ken Salazar.” ….

        Well there are the political connections…

        So who in Hades is Sunpower (aside from being another government leech) and what does it have to do with Antelope Valley?

        Warren Buffet Buys Antelope Valley Solar Projects for $2.5 Billion

        MidAmerican Energy Holding Co., the energy utility owned by Warrant Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway, has agreed to pay SunPower Corp. between $2-2.5 billion for the design, development, and installation of the 579MW Antelope Valley solar projects.

        The two solar installations that make up the 579MW project have been described as the largest photovoltaic development in the world. Construction is expected to begin this quarter and be completed by the end of 2015….

        Antelope Valley is located in northern Los Angeles County, California and the southeast portion of Kern County, California, and constitutes the western tip of the Mojave Desert.

        If you look around the internet you find the L.A. County Land Planning map and the “Preliminary Draft Antelope Valley Area Plan’
        including :
        Draft Renewable Energy Production Priority Map Retracted 9/8/11
        Draft Renewable Energy Production Priority Map Overview…
        http://planning.lacounty.gov/tnc/documents/

  9. Keitho says:

    There is something quite odd about a government sending a bunch of tooled up guys to collect a debt I thought that was more of a Mob thing.

    As for the rent and the costs, I don’t think Bundy sets the grazing fees for the BLM and he certainly doesn’t set the management costs. That’s just a red herring in a situation that beggars belief. The BLm has its own reasons for charging what it does and it looks like Happy Harry has his own interests in all of this too.

  10. bobmaginnis says:

    The supposed China Reid Solar deal is a red herring.
    Jon Stewart on Cliven Bundy: ‘Sean Hannity has now made Glenn Beck the voice of reason’
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/22/jon-stewart-on-cliven-bundy-sean-hannity-has-now-made-glenn-beck-the-voice-of-reason/

    • _Jim says:

      True or false: Reid’s son is involved with some sort of ‘deal’ in the area?

      Yes or no: Is a solar facility planned for that area?

      Yes or no: Are the Chinese involved?

      Otherwise, I don’t trust the ‘deck of cards’ you use here (As in “I did not have s3x with that woman, Monica Lewinsky.” style ‘selective rendering’ of fact is also lying.)

      • miked1947 says:

        Jim:
        The answer is NO to all three! They are all rumors used to promote lawless acts.

        • _Jim says:

          Assertion without support or cites. (A review of the Snopes posting on this indicates you could not fully support your assertions anyway, so don’t bother.)

          BTW, the FIRST Q was a T or F, not Y or N.

          .

        • miked1947 says:

          There is no evidence Reid’s son is involved in the “Area”! Define Area!
          The nearest solar project was at US93 and I15, where a power generating plant already exists. That is an industrial area that was set aside in the 90s. I would not consider that in the Bunkerville area.
          The Chinese pulled out of a deal in the far south of Clark County. About 140 miles away, not in the region.

        • _Jim says:

          More ‘bending of fact’ and ‘stretching the truth’; no verifiable cites or evidence presented.

          Of course, you don’t have access to the board rooms or the internal documents of the companies involved, nor to the ‘desk’ (or PC) or mind of Rory Reid so you don’t know what was (or is!) being discussed on an exploratory level even; given that, I have to cut you some slack …

          But, you can’t in any way deny a deal was being made by the Chinese to build a solar facility in Nevada. That they cancelled in 2013 does not mean they were still open to a project somewhere else in Nevada (projects like this can succeed or fail from a ‘timing’ standpoint), and still on talking terms about this with the two Reids.

          .

        • miked1947 says:

          The so called “Deal” was for land near Laughlin, Nevada. Look at a map.
          I have no respect for the Reids and I will in no way defend them. This issue is not about the Reids and they only come in to the conversation as a Red Herring to distract from Bundy’s disregard of the law. Would you think it is proper to set up a home in a National Park without some type of permission? Bundy is doing just that. He is running his cattle on federal land without permission.
          Of course if you get down to basics, that land belongs to all Americans and is held in trust by the Federal Government.
          I just spent most of my life living within 70 miles of the Bundy Ranch and watched the musical land circus around Clark County for about 54 years.

        • _Jim says:

          Anecdotal accounts all; no facts or evidence cited proving your case.

          Thanks for playing.

        • miked1947 says:

          You are welcome!
          I was just matching the fiction you provided with historic facts.
          I do not believe you personally knew any of the Bundy family or even lived anywhere near the land in question.

  11. Andy DC says:

    The Government has become WAY too intrusive in our lives. Plus the average working class person has very little to show for all the tax revenue they pay. Basically the money goes to pay off rich political cronies with a few crumbs trickling down to the poor. The system is broken and we have been living off debt for last 30 years, regardless of which party is in power!

  12. bobmaginnis says:

    “…However, Clark County property records reveal that Bundy’s parents moved from Bundyville, Arizona and purchased the ranch in 1948 from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt. Water rights were, as Bundy claims, transferred, but only to the ranch–not to the federal land surrounding it. In another blow to the welfare cowboy’s credibility, cattle did not graze on the land until 1954.
    http://austinisafecker.wordpress.com/2014/04/22/jon-stewart-schools-hannity-on-bundy-hypocrisy/

    • _Jim says:

      Your ‘source’ looks to be a blog post, not an actual news item … do you have anything more substantial? Source docs proving your alleged ‘facts’ even?

      This would not be the first time ‘selective editing’, reading or reporting of the docs resulted in an intentional mis-interpretation (and misdirection) …

        • _Jim says:

          So you say, yet, you point out NO specifics. I think you’re just hand-waving …

        • miked1947 says:

          I guess you did not read the property records for the “Ranch” or the census records for the “Family”. I guess you did not read the “Court” records either for this issue that started in the early 90s. Bundy has no “right” to have cattle grazing on that land. He has his 160 acre “Homestead”.

        • _Jim says:

          More hand waving. Cite specifics.

        • miked1947 says:

          Jim:
          I just lived there and was involved with regional planning in Southern Nevada. The growth in that area allowed me to retire in a different part of the country. I know the history and the people in Southern Nevada and some of my relatives still live there.
          Harry Reid, Solar and the Chinese are the hand waving in this situation. Bundy’y lies are the main thing to look at.

    • Gail Combs says:

      miked194 says:
      This issue is not about the Reids and they only come in to the conversation as a Red Herring to distract from Bundy’s disregard of the law. Would you think it is proper to set up a home in a National Park without some type of permission? Bundy is doing just that. He is running his cattle on federal land without permission…..
      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
      Does the government have the RIGHT to decide MY LAND that I bought outright and pay taxes on is now supposed to be a “Greenway with Pubic Access” without paying me a dime? This was decided by a nearby city planning committee – 2020 Land Use Plan – when I am not even located in that city! These land use plans are coming straight out of ICLEI, a United Nations NGO and are being imposed on the citizens of the USA FROM THE OUTSIDE. Video with a good explanation of what is going on behind the scenes from a liberal bureaucrat:

      Miked,
      You are missing the larger picture.

      The UN issued several policies at the 1992 Earth Summit, one of which was the Convention on Biological Diversity (CBD). Compliance with this UN policy is being driven and managed by the Wildlands Network which shares the same goals as the CBD; to set aside half the land in America for animals.

      But let’s reframe this issue just a bit and put it into perspective; is there any reason you would turn over half of America to Vladimir Putin? What is the difference between living under Putin’s rule or living under UN rule? We are giving the eco-socialists our land (the agencies buy it with our taxes) and we are sliding down the slope to living under UN rule. In Florida, the government has acquired 28% of the land (9.9 million acres)…

      The process of returning land to its wild state is referred to as “re-wilding.” Wildlands are created by buying land, reducing or eliminated human activities and access to the land, and then putting buffer zones around them. Then another wildland is created nearby, and they connect them with more land purchases. This accumulation of land begins to form corridors, and the corridors then connect to one of the four North American Wildways (migration routes).

      ….The Wildlands project (now called Wildlands Network and based in Florida) was first proposed by Earth First’s Dave Foreman, in 1991. The eco-socialists do not hide their intent: “The Wildlands Network is now spearheading an initiative to connect habitat along the length of eastern North America, from the Everglades of Florida…”
      (wwwDOT)infiniteunknown.net/2011/07/27/the-u-n-agenda-21-wildlands-project-…-taking-over-america-starting-with-florida/

      So ask yourself – Does Congress have the RIGHT to sign the UN Biodiversity Treaty that would put 50% of the USA (including my farm) permanently NO Access for humans and about 30% to 40% as limited access to humans while herding all of us into 14 ft X 14 ft min-apartments in Transit Villages? Because that is the ultimate goal and that Biodiversity Treaty is still on the back burner waiting for when the time is right to implement it.

      References:
      UN Biodiversity Treaty and The Wildlands Project How the Convention on Biodiversity was defeated
      http://nwri.org/the-wildlands-project/un-biodiversity-treaty-and-the-wildlands-project/

      Listing of laws, where the Biodiversity Treaty is being implemented piecemeal plus a link to the ‘Wildlands” map and other info.: http://www.klamathbucketbrigade.org/YNTKwildlandsproject_table.htm

      Green Practices/Sustainability

      Apartments are the core of any sustainability strategy. They are more resource- and energy-efficient than other types of residential development because their concentrated infrastructure conserves materials and community services. As part of an infill or mixed-use development, apartments create communities where people live, work, and play with less dependence on cars. This reduces the consumption of fossil fuels and their carbon emissions….
      (wwwDOT) nmhc.org/Content/LandingPage.cfm?NavID=249

      Mini-Prisons & Micro-Apartments Built Across America in the Name of Sustainability (wwwDOT)occupycorporatism.com/mini-prisons-micro-apartments-built-across-america-in-the-name-of-sustainability/
      The title is inflammatory but it lists links to many stories where the building codes are changed to meet the UN’s wishes and to encourage the building of tiny apartments that used to be outlawed.

  13. bobmaginnis says:

    Something newer for Brad, although I doubt Bundy’s militia types give a damn about these original land owners:
    “…Unlike Bundy, who claims his ancestors were homesteaders on his ranch in 1877 and never ceded it to the federal government, the Danns, two Western Shoshone sisters, were not trampling over land set aside for sensitive plants and animals. Nor were they getting rich off the land while, in essence, robbing the taxpayers of grazing fees.
    The Danns have lived without running water or electricity their entire lives. Their tribe, the Western Shoshone, have lived in Nevada and parts west since time immemorial. The land was Shoshone land, and the U.S. formally agreed that was the case when it signed the 1863 Treaty of Ruby Valley, which explicitly stated that the Shoshone would never have to give up their land. That is, until the U.S. began encroaching on the land, claiming it for its own without the tribe’s consent or knowledge.
    The Danns’ battle goes back to the early 1970s, when the federal government first sued them to stop grazing horses and cattle on land the U.S. claimed as its own. The Danns said the land was Western Shoshone land that the U.S. had taken illegally……”
    http://www.alternet.org/heres-real-david-vs-goliath-story-between-ranchers-and-feds?

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Sorry, you lost me at “…trampling over land set aside for sensitive plants and animals.

      The grass grew on those grazing lands because Bundy invested in the care and infrastructure necessary for the grass to grow – because if he over-grazed, his herd would suffer.

      As for the poor, sensitive animals: those – the desert tortoise – would be the same sensitive animals that BLM was actively killing by the hundreds. Spare me.

    • Brad says:

      I was merely pointing out that the government had done this to a native American. I don’t have white man guilt. I’m embarrassed by the actions of the US Government. If you owe taxes, the government will come to your house and steal your property at gun point. That’s crazy.

    • philjourdan says:

      Funny thing about your source and narrative. I missed the part where the US government owned it since time immemorial. Maybe it was my Evelyn Woodski reading classes that caused me to over look such a relevant factoid.

  14. bobmaginnis says:

    Chip,
    What exactly did he do for our 600,000 acres of public land? I’m not talking about his 160 acre ranch which he owns. Is $1.35 per cattle unit too much for us owners of our public land to ask from him? Is he the best judge of what the marginal land can sustain? I notice you didn’t express much interest in the Shoshone, the original owners.

    • _Jim says:

      bobmaginnis: “Is $1.35 per cattle unit too much ”

      Dunno … do you eat beef?

    • Chip Bennett says:

      “…our… public land”? It isn’t our land; it is (unconstitutionally) the Federal Government’s land. BLM-extorted graze fees don’t benefit you, and ranchers’ use of that land doesn’t harm you. Quite to the contrary: ranchers’ use of that land benefits anyone who actually enjoys eating beef.

      As for what Bundy has done for that land: he has improved it, through irrigation and responsible management, to improve and to maintain its ability to support grazing livestock; and he has put otherwise barren land to good use by enabling it to contribute to the nation’s supply of beef.

      I would ask you a rejoinder: what exactly has BLM done for 600,000 acres of public land?

    • Gail Combs says:

      Why should Bundy PAY to graze the cattle when it cost Americans NOTHING, while American tax payers PAY subsidies for the corn and grain that is feed to corporate cattle in confinement operations?

      The only reason confinement operations are profitable compared to grazing like Bundy is doing is because the corn and other grain is priced BELOW the cost of raising it thanks to American tax payers footing the bill.

  15. bobmaginnis says:

    Jim, sounds like the BLM should charge more for the use of our public land. Right now they (Bundy) are paying $1.35 a month for each cow/calf combination eating our grass. “By comparison, the average grazing fee on private land in the West is $16.80 a month, according to the Congressional Research Service, and ranges between $2.28 and $150 on state lands in the region.

    • _Jim says:

      ” Jim, sounds like the BLM should charge more for the use of our public land. ”

      So, do you _want_ to pay more for beef, or simply run Bundy off the land?

      The solution is to get land management out of the pol ‘hands’ in Wash DC and back to the states, where timely evaluation and decisions can be made vs stagnated, heavy-handed dictates from across the country … YMMV, however.

    • Chip Bennett says:

      Oh, you’re still under the delusion that BLM uses those fees to manage the land? How foolishly naive.

      BLM’s misuse of those fees to buy out other ranchers instead of using them to manage the land is one of the primary reasons that Bundy refused to pay BLM and offered instead to pay the fees to Nevada. The grass on that land is maintained because – and only because – Bundy has managed that land responsibly, including spending his own money to irrigate it.

    • philjourdan says:

      That is for grass land, not scrub land. There is a big difference.

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