Breaking : Top Climate Story Of The Year

Japan is spending climate scam money to build coal fired power plants.

The AP reported in December that Japan had counted $1 billion in loans for coal plants in Indonesia as climate finance, angering critics who say such financing should be going to clean energy like solar and wind power.

ScreenHunter_8129 Mar. 26 10.22

Japan Uses Climate Cash for Coal Plants in India, Bangladesh – ABC News

h/t to Dave G

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63 Responses to Breaking : Top Climate Story Of The Year

  1. gator69 says:

    Students in Shanghai, China’s largest city, had the top scores in all subjects, and Singapore, South Korea, Japan and Hong Kong students weren’t far behind. Even Vietnam, whose students participated for the first time, showed higher average scores in math and science than the United States.

    • LOL in Oregon says:

      Wait! Wait! Wait!
      Didn’t you see that U.S. kids are great with Meerkat and Twitter Periscope:
      …watching grass grow and water boil with too much time on their hands?
      “All mankinds knowledge in their pockets,
      and they watch kittens, argue with strangers, and watch water boil!

  2. My understanding is that Japan has, at least publicly, bought into the climate scam. Their meteorological group also claims a warming planet.

    • The Greens are also saying that the Oil companies are on board and even they accept Global Warming. Seems that warm fuzzy words on websites, donations, etc gives oil companies a pass as they announce that they are increasing production and expect no end of the increase until well into the middle of the century.

      • gator69 says:

        Greens receiving Big Oil money = Good

        Skeptics receiving Big Oil money = Bad

        Green studies funded by Big Oil money = Science

        Skeptic studies funded by Big Oil money = Propaganda

        Rinse and repeat until all grey matter is gone.

    • That seems consistent with their national character:

      Making it work while saving face.

  3. Dave G says:

    Japan’s ROI, Wind&Solar versus Coal? and the winner is ……………….

    • Chris Barron says:

      Well Japan aren’t building these plants in Japan….but since they turned off their 50 nuclear plants they’ve been having something of a power crisis.

      It proves that you need a mix of power generation and it’s beyond engineering practicalities to expect all solutions to cost the same.

      The smartest of people store what they don’t use….perhaps the most controversial of these people is a guy somewhere in the north of England who gets very cheap off peak electricity at night time….he charges a battery bank at night for cheap and lives off the battery power during the day. Pays 1/4 of what his neighbours pay for heating and lighting

      • Anthony S says:

        That power crisis has been strongly encouraging them to restart their reactors.

        First Japanese reactor out of fifteen has technical regulatory approval for restart

        • Chris Barron says:

          That’s them screwed when it comes to decommissioning time, but at least they’ll have light at night

      • DD More says:

        Chrisy, so “very cheap off peak electricity at night time”? All the power output profiles I’ve seen show, at night wind power drops and solar is non-existent. So where is all that cheap renewable electricity you keep bragging about? And do you have figured in the loss to electricity to store it in the batteries.

        • gator69 says:

          After doing a life-cycle analysis of the battery types in current use, and analyzing the amount of wind and solar energy such a battery could save from curtailment, the study’s authors conclude that pairing batteries with solar generation generally saves more energy than is required to produce the battery; however, in the case of wind generation, more energy is often required to produce the battery than is saved during periods of excess production. Therefore, a simple EROI calculation indicates that it makes sense to pair current battery technology with solar, but not with wind.

          Depending on the depth of discharge and operating temperature, the sealed lead-acid provides 200 to 300 discharge/charge cycles. The primary reason for its relatively short cycle life is grid corrosion of the positive electrode, depletion of the active material and expansion of the positive plates. These changes are most prevalent at higher operating temperatures. Cycling does not prevent or reverse the trend.

          I have gone trough 3 batteries in my 2008 truck, and it gets driven 1-3 days per week, and is not subjected to daily abuse. Good batteries cost about $150 each.

          I’ll stick with my coal.

        • Chris Barron says:

          DD More, here int he UK electricity companies produce a reduced rate night time electricity supply.

          At the moment the differential is a bit over 50%….IE it is less than half price during the period concerned, which often lasts for 7 hours, hence the name of this particular tarrif Economy 7.

          Most people who subscribe to the service (not everyone can for various reasons) use it to power expensive to operate electric storage heaters during the night, which release their heat during the day.

          The guy I referred to has a set of old forklift truck batteries in his flat which he charges using economy 7. during the day the heat comes from the storage heaters and his appliances, fridge, TV etc are all powered by the batteries via an invertor.

          I hope that’s the technical detail you were looking for

        • Chris Barron says:

          Regarding large batteries, it has been done before, and as we get better at managing the technology the reliability improves

        • gator69 says:

          After doing a life-cycle analysis of the battery types in current use, and analyzing the amount of wind and solar energy such a battery could save from curtailment, the study’s authors conclude that pairing batteries with solar generation generally saves more energy than is required to produce the battery; however, in the case of wind generation, more energy is often required to produce the battery than is saved during periods of excess production. Therefore, a simple EROI calculation indicates that it makes sense to pair current battery technology with solar, but not with wind.

          Bigger does not equal efficient.

          The lithium-ion battery works on ion movement between the positive and negative electrodes. In theory such a mechanism should work forever, but cycling, elevated temperature and aging decrease the performance over time. Since batteries are used in demanding environmental conditions, manufacturers take a conservative approach and specify the life of most Li-ion between 300 and 500 discharge/charge cycles.

          They can last longer if you don’t use them much, but my guess is that there will be large discharge depth, and lifespans will be short.

          My coal requires no batteries.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Gator, ONLY 3 batteries? I have gone through more than 10 on each of my diesel Pick-ups. Of course I have gone through about 20 sets of tires and brakes too.

        • Chris Barron says:

          “I have gone trough 3 batteries in my 2008 truck, and it gets driven 1-3 days per week, and is not subjected to daily abuse. Good batteries cost about $150 each.”

          My 2008 Alfa uses a truck sized 90Ah battery and has only just started to weaken.

          The absolute worse usage pattern for a lead acid battery is intermittent use. Daily use makes lead acid batteries last longer because the highest voltage is maintained for as long as possible, in turn preventing sulphate crystals from growing.

          All batteries self discharge to some extent and as they age they discharge sooner…this lets the voltage drop down and that’s when the crystals grow. Keeping a lead acid battery on a constant float charge guarantees the longest life, but then you need to be prepared to do maintenance and top up the electrolyte

          Basically only using the truck once a week is a bad case for a battery.

        • gator69 says:

          Who said once a week?

        • gator69 says:

          Batteries are cheaper than trucks.

          And from your link…

          “The best thing [to do to keep your battery charged] is to drive the car on a regular basis; every three to four days should be fine,” says Calvin Feist, instructor at NAIT in Edmonton. “It needs to be driven and not idled.”

          It is garaged, and driven every 2-3 days. (iIhave built two hotrods, and do most of my own maintenance).

        • Chris Barron says:

          “I have gone trough 3 batteries in my 2008 truck, and it gets driven 1-3 days per week, and is not subjected to daily abuse. Good batteries cost about $150 each.”

          The other aspect is what is the ambient temperature ?. The way to make a lead acid battery last as long as possible is to not expose it to heat. Even a rise from an ambient temp of 20C top 25C impacts the life quite dramatically.

          Here in Scotland we don’t get much of that sort of problem !

          Some people who buy very large capacity cells from traction batteries, EG forklift batteries which aren’t performing well. buy them cheaply and use them as off grid storage. What’s clear is those who live in Spain get a much shorter life than those in colder climates

        • gator69 says:

          As I said, my truck is garaged. It never gets below 50F or above 85F. I built a two and a half car climate controlled garage for my hotrod, as well as my truck.

          Three batteries (just bought the third 3 months ago) in 7 years is average, or better than average.

          My coal needs zero batteries.

        • Chris Barron says:

          It might be interesting to compare your lattitude with the battery life prediction for yoiur area made in this paper

        • gator69 says:

          Not really. I have lived here long enough, and gone through 8 vehicles, so I know what to expect.

        • Chris Barron says:

          Gator “I have gone trough 3 batteries in my 2008 truck, and it gets driven 1-3 days per week, and is not subjected to daily abuse. Good batteries cost about $150 each.”

          1 to 3 days per week implies you only drive 1 day per week sometimes. Granted you may make a few journeys not just one on that day ,but to the battery it isn’t an important details…it is the cumulative effect of the number of days not being used which makes the all important difference to battery lifetime

        • Chris Barron says:

          Gator – “It never gets below 50F or above 85F.”

          85F is going to be detrimental, significantly so compared to 70F

        • gator69 says:

          So when you drive your car, it stays below 85F under the bonnet? Amazing!

          85F is a maximum, that rarely gets reached in my garage, there is no issue there.

        • Chris Barron says:

          “Not really. I have lived here long enough, and gone through 8 vehicles, so I know what to expect.”

          Therein lies another story !

        • Chris Barron says:

          Whatever…I thought you said you built a climate controlled garage and it never gets above 85F.

          Confusion of interpretaion that’s all it wwas….2 nations separated by a common langauge again !

          Under my car’s bonnet I doubt it reaches 85F very often, and never long enough to warm the battery to that level..

          Our local temps ensure long battery life !

        • Chris Barron says:

          “f you can hold your finger in a spot for more than a moment without getting burned, that spot’s not hot enough. As a general rule, the best spot—if you can safely get to it—is on or near the exhaust manifold.”

          Nope, my oven can’t compete with an exhaust manifold, thank goodness for heat shielding and good airflow

        • gator69 says:

          Click to access R04-13v01%20Underhood%20Temperatures%201.pdf

          It gets hotter than 85F under your hood (bonnet). But then maybe you are not as familiar with working on cars as I am. Even when moving, you are getting hot air from your radiator, filling the engine compartment with heat. My thermostat opens at 180F. At idle, without a fan, your car can overheat.

          My oven can reach over 500F, but then it’s not windmill driven. 😉

          The figures you are using guidelines are for storing batteries.

  4. Chris Barron says:

    It just goes to show – the clever Japanese have decided there is no climate disaster and are giving 2 fingers to the alarmists……and thanking them for their funding at the same time. Very elegant !

  5. Gail Combs says:

    Japan has gotten plastered by snowstorms and freezing weather the last two winters. During the winter of 2013 you could literally X-country ski from Tokyo*** to Iran! This winter even the island that is similar in climate to South Carolina got a snowstorm that killed people and collapsed houses and roofs. link

    Japan is also getting hit with earthquakes and volcanic action that some think is connected to a sleepy sun. Sun’s Activity Linked to Largest Earthquakes and Volcanoes (You will have to figure out the language –South Korean? and translate to read the comments)

    • Gail Combs says:

      I can not post

    • Gail Combs says:

      That Sea just north of Japan freezes.
      You can find the link I can not post on WUWT sea page showing 2013 had major ice.

      The China Sea is south of Japan and it froze too. January 5, 2013:

      Bitter cold has stranded about 1,000 vessels in a layer of thick sea ice on Laizhou Bay in China’s Shandong province, reports the China Daily newspaper.

      The ice expanded to 291 square km this week and is continuing to grow, said Zheng Dong, chief meteorologist at the Yantai Marine Environment Monitoring Center under the State Oceanic Administration….

      Coastal police have warned the ice may damage vessels passing through deeper sea areas near the Bohai and Yellow seas, in the northern East China Sea….

      The Japanese will be polite but they are going to take care of their own country’s best interests

  6. gator69 says:

    Yep! Clean coal is the answer. Because I built a very efficient home (I actually installed a layer of insulation my contractor had never even heard of) my electric usage is a quarter to a fifth of my neighbors, and all I had to do was hook up to an existing reliable resource, without having to ask my neighbors to pay for any of this. I was conscientious, and I did pay extra to have my electric line buried, so as not to disrupt the pastoral views.

    As an added benefit, I am helping to save our forests and increase crop yields!

    Win, win, and win.

    • Unacceptable. No opportunities for graft.

      • gator69 says:

        Full disclosure: I was able to keep $1600 of my own money by installing an energy efficient metal roof. Is it immoral that I did not unpay myself back?

        • $1600! As if you had to ask. Haitian factory workers make $2.50 per day to make your Hanes underwear. It takes them 2 years to make that much money. Look it up on Democratic Underground.

          To echo the President, at a certain point you’ve denied the government enough of your money. And Boulder children want to know why you should have any tax deductions.

          Why did you need a metal roof, anyway? What are you hiding and what are you afraid of? As this commenter says, “not necessary, a simple aluminum hat would suffice”.

        • gator69 says:

          The irony is strong in you, but so is the truth. It is because of Obama’s idiot Dr Chu, that I got to keep my $1600…

          All I had to do was pick a shade light enough to qualify…

          I once did the math, and even if you include all roofs, roads, parking lots and runways, the surface area is basically point zero zero zero zero nothing.

        • nielszoo says:

          How is that roof? I’m in Central Florida and was thinking about it but was worried about the noise. We get a couple of thunderstorms a day here in the summer and the roof of my barn is deafening. Now, wood, tar paper, insulation and drywall between will help that but it’s a bit of a concern. How much more was it than asphalt shingles percent wise?

        • gator69 says:

          I highly recommend a metal roof. I had the best quality architectural 30 year shingle on the house when it was built, and that lasted seven years, thanks to hail storms (another reason I have not yet gone solar!) When I replaced the shingles, all I did was lay down a heavy felt over the existing plywood, and then attached the metal. It saves me probably about 30% or more on my cooling costs in Summer, and should last over a century.

          As for the ‘noise’, the best way I have been able to describe the sound is that instead of a muffled thudding in heavy rain, I hear the individual raindrops, and it is magically delicious. 😉

          Twice the cost, four times the roof, and savings to boot. I have had hail storms since, and you cannot find a dimple.

        • That’s a fine looking roof and it’s great it withstood the hail pounding.

          Do you know what your insurance company would cover should it get hail damage? I understand some insurance policies no longer cover replacements of metal roofs after cosmetic hail damage, as long as the roof is still functional.

          I’m not necessarily opposed but it’s good to know.

        • gator69 says:

          Just for clarity’s sake, that is not my house (I live in the boonies) but that is the same roof I have. I have USAA insurance and was told they would replace a dimpled roof. They replaced dimpled downspouts, and even reimbursed me for damage to the bark on my Maple trees.

          it depends on your company, just call and ask.

          When I was checking out metal roof products, I went with a heavier gauge metal and the company gave me a sample to test. I froze golf ball sized balls of really solid ice (not like hail), and proceeded to pummel the sample with my best fast ball pitch, and could not see any impacts.

        • Yes, every policy is different and one must understand its coverage conditions.

          I’ve heard good things from friends with USAA policies.

        • Gail Combs says:

          I have to replace my roof too over the next couple of years and am also thinking of a metal roof. So give us a bit more info Gator.

        • gator69 says:

          Other than what I told Neil, just don’t try and lay it over existing shingles, bad idea.

          I once saw a home with at least seven layers of shingles on the roof, just one layer nailed over the next! It was in East St Louis.

  7. KTM says:

    It’s not at all surprising that once the environmentalists managed to get a big pot of money set aside for governments to dole out, that the governments have been using it in ways that were never originally intended.

    A carbon tax would represent the largest transfer of wealth from the people (including the poor and middle class) to the government in world history. Those supporting it insist that the government would make sure that the funds are disbursed back to the people in a fair and equitable manner. But at least in the US, we have numerous examples where they have convinced the masses to send money to government with the promise to have it returned at a future date, only to have it pillaged and abused (Social Security and Medicare trust funds, etc) for other unrelated purposes.

    Even in British Columbia, which is held up as a model for carbon taxation, the system that was designed to have zero impact on fuel consumption by the lower classes has ended up putting many into fuel poverty and the tax benefits overall are regressive. The least wealthy can’t afford to use the fuels they would like, and are financially subsidizing the use by corporations and the 1%, to put it simply.

    This shows that 1) even the most “fairly” designed system can lead to an unfair outcome, and 2) that even a fair system can be made unfair through new legislation or government policy decisions.

    I have zero confidence that after the masses all start sending untold billions of dollars to government in carbon taxes that it won’t end up further enriching the rich and powerful, or used in a way it was never intended, or turn into a massive corrupting slush fund. Government hasn’t earned this trust, and I think it’s psychotic to think they are going to change their stripes while they simultaneously defend their past abuses as inconsequential.

    • Gail Combs says:

      Nice summation.

      I would also like to add that governments are notorious money wasters even without graft or any other problems. Governments are just too inefficient. Which gets the most to the poor?
      1. Helping the person directly with food, cloths, job (And yes I have don e ot)
      2. Donating to the Salvation Army: Food donations go directly to their kitchen and food pantry. (No other data since they are tax exempt.) The Red Cross has a 90.4% spent on recipients.
      3. US Government.


      Resistance to additional income taxes would be even more widespread if people were aware that:
      * One-third of all their taxes is consumed by waste and inefficiency in the Federal Government as we identified in our survey.
      * Another one-third of all their taxes escapes collection from others as the underground economy blossoms in direct proportion to tax increases and places even more pressure on law abiding taxpayers, promoting still more underground economy-a vicious cycle that must be broken.
      * With two-thirds of everyone’s personal income taxes wasted or not collected, 100 percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal debt and by Federal Government contributions to transfer payments. In other words, all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services which taxpayers expect from their Government….

      In that report it also says:

      If the American people realized how rapidly Federal Government spending is likely to grow under existing legislated programs, I am convinced they would compel their elected representatives to “get the Government off their backs.” In our survey to search out ways to cut costs in the Government, great emphasis was placed on the spending outlook, which is as follows:

      If fundamental changes are not made in Federal spending, as compared with the fiscal 1983 deficit of $195 billion, a deficit of over ten times that amount, $2 trillion, is projected for the year 2000, only 17 years from now. In that year, the Federal debt would be $13.0 trillion ($160,000 per current taxpayer) and the interest alone on the debt would be $1.5 trillion per year ($18,500 per year per current taxpayer).

      In 2000 the debt was 5.6 trillion. 55% of GDP. Fourteen years later the U.S. national debt hit $18 trillion in December of 2014 and is 101% of GDP.

      • Gail Combs says:

        For comparison (just picked off google)
        Greece recorded a Government Debt to GDP of 175.1% (2013)
        Japan 227.20%
        Spain is 93.9%
        Germany 78.4%
        Brazil 56.80%
        India 67.72%
        Russia 13.41% (all that oil and gas?)
        China’s Total Debt Load Equals 282% of GDP

        • DD More says:

          Japan 227.20%
          And has been high for decades. All the families from the 1950-1980’s just saved too much and now the government has to spend if for them.

      • KTM says:

        Yes, it is truly shocking. Interest rates are still being held at artificially low rates through the continuation of unprecedented Federal Reserve interventions. When interest rates inevitably revert to the long-term average, the interest we will be paying on the debt we already owe will be well over $1 trillion per year. That’s an enormous amount of money to pay out every year with zero benefit to the people.

        Every budget proposal under President Obama has projected budget deficits until the end of time. At no point do they even attempt to run a budget surplus and pay off the first dime of accumulated debt. At least under past Presidents the proposals all included provisions to produce a balanced budget or surplus over the long-term, they aren’t even pretending anymore.

        Meanwhile, the dollar is climbing because as dysfunctional as the US is the EU is even more dysfunctional. Our national policy seems to be based on the premise that we can get away with making our unprecedented monetary and fiscal recklessness permanent as long as others continue to be more dysfunctional than we are. If and when this house of cards collapses it is going to be cataclysmic. And the left-wingers dare to criticize the House Republican budgets as “immoral”? I don’t see what’s so very moral about putting the country at existential risk and condemning all future taxpayers to debt serfdom to buy votes in the next election.

        • Winnipeg Boy says:

          balanced budget

          The B-B word. That is worse than the N word. Thou shalt not utter such a phrase.

  8. oeman50 says:

    Japan has justified the use of that money for coal power plants because they are new, supercritical pressure plants that are more efficient than the older plants they are replacing. So they emit less CO2 per megawatt-hour than the others. If you accept the premiss that decreasing CO2 is the desired goal and power that is available 24/7 is needed to stabilize the grid in a developing country, then the money is being well spent. Intermittent power generation is inherently destabilizing.

  9. bazza says:

    What is it with the children crap,playing in front of a chimney.They are very sick people do they think we are stupid.They can’t win with science so they try with lies and bs.

  10. gator69 says:

    “The best thing [to do to keep your battery charged] is to drive the car on a regular basis; every three to four days should be fine,” says Calvin Feist, instructor at NAIT in Edmonton. “It needs to be driven and not idled.”

    If it sits a week, or more, I have a battery tender that I hook up. I know all I need to know about car maintenance.

    And again, batteries are cheaper than cars. Putting unnecessary miles and exposure for the sake of a battery, when I have a tender, would be stupid.

    • A C Osborn says:

      If the car is outdoors then it is one thing solar power is good for, it kept my battery going for over 10 years with only 12000 miles on the clock.

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