Slowest Arctic Melt Season On Record Continues

ScreenHunter_8756 Apr. 21 07.27

Look for NSIDC and NASA to remain silent, as Arctic sea ice extent rapidly approaches the highest level in a decade.

Advertisements

About stevengoddard

Just having fun
This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

45 Responses to Slowest Arctic Melt Season On Record Continues

  1. stargazer3920 says:

    The truckers are finding it difficult to get supplies to Prudhoe Bay due to large amounts of ice on the Dalton Highway. I read about this the other day (15 April), I can’t find anything more recent…

    Some Highlights:

    The shallow, braided Sagavanirktok River flows alongside the highway that Krueger flags for the road’s final miles. But over the past few weeks, ice has uncharacteristically formed along its bottom and pushed the river’s flow up from the channel and onto the road. The overflow runs several feet thick in some places, and in other spots, it immediately froze into a thick mass of ice.

    The sudden flooding has made one of the state’s most critical highways virtually impassable.

    You’re standing on a road that is 3 feet of ice,” Meadow Bailey, public relations officer for the Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities, says. “It almost looks like you’re on a glacier — everything is very blue, it’s white and blues for as far as you can see.” Trucks that continued to drive the route as conditions worsened sloshed through several feet of water and at times drove alongside a rushing river that ran higher than the road itself.

    Truckers who regularly drive the haul road are no strangers to inclement weather — their struggles against frigid temperatures and freak blizzards have been chronicled in the History Channel series “Ice Road Truckers” — but Thompson says a closure of this length is extremely rare.
    “There will be times when there’s a snowstorm, so you have to wait out the snowstorm for maybe a few hours, but in this case, it’s a once-in-a lifetime event,” he says.

    Though the problem has not been fully resolved, opinions about whether the overflow will continue to impede normal operations are mixed. At Everts Air, Ragar is bracing for the long haul. “This particular road closing on the Dalton has not been experienced in anybody’s memory — never,” he says. “There seems to be a belief that this is going to go on for a while.”

    http://www.ibtimes.com/trucking-along-alaskas-ice-road-northern-oilfields-freezes-halt-1883163#discussion

  2. Marsh says:

    No, no we can rely on NSIDC & NASA to bend and deviate from the truth as always ; they are probably reworking the “real” Data this very instant – to something more CAGW compliant…
    There is no way the IPCC can go to Paris , with more Arctic Ice on record !

    • Disillusioned says:

      No matter the Arctic Ice summer minimum, they’ll have the talking points to feed the media. We know their game. If extent is less, but concentration and thickness has grown, they’ll cherrypick the extent and cherrybomb concentration and thickness – through the act of omission – just like they did a month ago with the press release about extent, and omitted mention of phenomenal growth in concentration.

      When “climate change” is your game you’re selling, Mother Nature provides endless data from which to cherrypick. So, if extent is more, they’ll ignore that and cherrypick another meaningless statistic. And as you alluded, we know that if the cherrypicking of real data don’t work, then reworking data into submission is an option (an all-too-often hand being overplayed these days, which I believe will eventually lead to their downfall).

      • Jason Calley says:

        If the fraudulent so-called “climate scientists” are ever brought to trial and conviction, I propose a fitting punishment. They should be placed on agricultural work gangs picking fruit in a cherry orchard.

        I can dream, can’t I?

        • Disillusioned says:

          Little would give me more pleasure than to see Gavin Schmidt picking cherries in a cherry orchard. (The orchards should all to be in urban heat islands.) 😉

        • Snowleopard says:

          You folks are much kinder than I.

          I’d sentence them to a subsistence farm penal colony No electricity or fossil fuels allowed. Upper Peninsula of Michigan or northern Maine might be good locations for it

        • gator69 says:

          Antarctica!

          Antarctica is likely to be the world’s only habitable continent by the end of this century if global warming remains unchecked, the Government’s chief scientist, Professor Sir David King, said last week.

          http://www.rense.com/general52/ahbi.htm

        • AndyG55 says:

          Sorry Dis, I have picked cherries in Young in NSW
          (only for a week or so, just to see what it was like)

          It wasn’t particularly irksome,

          maybe because of the 2 or 3 young ladies on the picking squad 😉

  3. gator69 says:

    Still not as slow as Omama.

  4. darrylb says:

    For anyone who follow ocean trends, the changes in sea ice happening in the north Atlantic area is to be expected as the AMO is showing signs of returning to its cold phase.

    In general, a large portion of the entire warming campaign, is picking a part of natural oscillations which are in a warming upswing and ignoring regions where temperatures are in a temperature downswing.

  5. Sage Vals says:

    Reblogged this on Sage Vals and commented:
    But we won’t see any press releases about this will we…

  6. Andrew Troup says:

    Stephen Stephen Stephen, toujours aussi con, aucun surprise…

    The “slow decline” you crow about, is from the lowest annual maximum winter extent *ever* recorded.

    Unlike you, however, NASA did not trade dishonestly on the annual maximum being unprecedentedly low. Here’s what they said: “A record low sea ice maximum extent does not necessarily lead to a record low summertime minimum extent.

    “The winter maximum gives you a head start, but the minimum is so much more dependent on what happens in the summer that it seems to wash out anything that happens in the winter,” said Walt Meier, a sea ice scientist at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland.
    …. “Scientifically, the yearly maximum extent is not as interesting as the minimum. It is highly influenced by weather and we’re looking at the loss of thin, seasonal ice that is going to melt anyway in the summer and won’t become part of the permanent ice cover,” Meier said. “With the summertime minimum, when the extent decreases, it’s because we’re losing the thick ice component, and that is a better indicator of warming temperatures.”

    It’s a shame I need to remind you that when you crowed about an annual maximum extent which was (shock, horror!) *above the mean* (yes, you did think that was sufficient excuse to strut about and preen), the subsequent summer ice that same year collapsed to the lowest extent ever recorded.

    Which was an authentic occasion for genuine alarm, although, being a one-off, not to the same extent as the inexorable loss of ice trend, over the long term, from the sum total of the world’s glaciers, which is beyond alarming.

    • gator69 says:

      Ice melts. Water freezes. What part of this is shocking?

      Don’t tell me you are an extremely Young Earther. 😆

    • Brian H says:

      Thin seasonal ice? The 5-year ice is surging.

      Glaciers now melting in the Alps etc. are exposing remains of millennia-old forests and farms. From the good old days, when man had it easy; glacial retreat is a sign they may be coming back. How is that “alarming”? That’s a perverse reaction!

      • gator69 says:

        He yearns for the good ole days…

        Between 1680 and 1730, the coldest cycle of the Little Ice Age, temperatures plummeted and the growing season in England was about five weeks shorter then than now. The winter of 1683/4 was so cold that the ground froze to a depth of more than a meter in parts of south west England and belts of ice appeared off the Channel coast of England and northern France. The ice lay up to 30 miles offshore along the Dutch coast and many harbours were so choked with ice that shipping halted throughout the North Sea.

        Another exceptional winter was that of 1708/9. Deep snow fell in England and lasted for weeks while further East people walked from Denmark to Sweden on the ice as shipping was again halted in the North Sea. Hard frosts killed thousands of trees in France, where Provence lost most of its orange trees and vineyards were abandoned in northern France, not to be recultivated until the 20th Century. In 1716 the Thames froze so deep that a spring tide raised the ice fair on the river by 4 meters! The summer of 1725 in London was the coldest in the known temperature record and described as “ more like winter than summer”.

        After a warm interlude after 1730, when eight winters were as mild as the 20th Century, the cold returned. The temperature of the early 1740’s was the lowest in the Central England Temperature record for the entire period from 1659. Even in France thousands died of the cold and when the thaw came “ great floods did prodigious mischief”.

        Although temperatures started to gradually increase in the mid 19th Century, another cold snap in 1879 brought weather that rivaled the 1690’s. After a below freezing winter, England experienced a cold spring and one of the wettest and coldest summers on record. In some parts of East Anglia, the harvest was still being brought in after Christmas. The late 1870’s were equally cold in China and India , where up to 18 million died from famines caused by cold, drought and monsoon failure.

        They, that is pretty perverted.

      • Andrew Troup says:

        You remind me of the passenger on the Titanic welcoming the approaching ice because his drink needed freshening. But at least you’re ahead of the curve; most of the chorus line here still follow Stephen’s party line avidly, and are still in denial of warming altogether.

        But to address your enthusiasm for a warmer world: it’s all about the rate and the (irreversible) amount of change, and also about infrastructure (seaports, cities, entire nations built on river deltas).
        The last time the planetary system warmed this fast – correction, the present rate is an order of magnitude faster — but the last ultra-rapid warming, 56 million years ago, would result in massive sea level rise given the amount of relevant ice currently in Antarctica, and some pretty sobering changes in the ocean biosphere. The climate became much wetter – semi-permanent rain, permanent cloud cover …
        The good news is that the high temperature eventually reached was maintained for a relatively short period before the natural systems which kicked in reduced the carbon content of the atmosphere – but a few hundred thousand years is still a rather long time in human terms.
        The amount of carbon was roughly the same (thousands of gigatons) as humans can be expected to release into the atmosphere in the next few hundred years, but in that case it appears to have resulted from a ‘minor’ warming event (maybe 5 deg C) crossing a tipping point, possibly releasing methane, which contains carbon. This is still subject of strenuous debate, but if methane was the main culprit in powering the “tipping” process, the main probable source was sea-floor methane hydrate deposits which exist nowadays in vast amounts, and which are stable only at quite narrow combinations of pressure and temperature. When they warm even a few degrees, they release gaseous methane into the atmosphere. Methane, as a greenhouse gas, puts CO2 in the minor leagues.

        Whether or not methane was a major contributor then, it is likely to be this time, because there are much larger amounts of it around now than there were then. Tha’s because the ocean started from a slightly warmer baseline back then.

        Someone will be along shortly to tell you that the earth is not warming. The will conveniently neglect to point out that the atmospheric temperature is about the least useful measure of warming, and its indications are malleable enough to warm a dishonest heart.

        Here’s what they won’t tell you: Well over nine-tenths of the excess energy we receive from the sun due to the greenhouse effect goes into the ocean, and much of the rest goes into melting and subliming of glacier and other year-round ice. The long term trend data from those two heatsinks are beyond alarming.

        • gator69 says:

          A peer-reviewed paper published in the Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences finds that Arctic sea ice extent at the end of the 20th century was more extensive than most of the past 9000 years. The paper also finds that Arctic sea ice extent was on a declining trend over the past 9000 years, but recovered beginning sometime over the past 1000 years and has been relatively stable and extensive since.

          http://research.bpcrc.osu.edu/geo/publications/mckay_etal_CJES_08.pdf

        • AndyG55 says:

          “Well over nine-tenths of the excess energy we receive from the sun due to the greenhouse effect goes into the ocean”

          Utter BS. LWR cannot penetrate the oceans.

          In fact, your whole post is a load of propaganda nonsense.

          Boy, you sure have you drunk the alarmist warm p*ss !!
          No wonder you need your nappy changed !!

        • AndyG55 says:

          “sea-floor methane hydrate deposits which exist nowadays in vast amounts, and which are stable only at quite narrow combinations of pressure and temperature. When they warm even a few degrees,”

          Wow.. more nappy-time stuff. how does you nanny cope !!

          If the little ocean heat content graphs based on models and assumption are to be believed, they are the equivalent of about 0.001ºC warming..

          makes your few degrees comment look pretty darn STUPID doesn’t it. !

        • AndyG55 says:

          Himalayan glaciers are recovering. (as are many other glacier systems)
          http://devconsultancygroup.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/himalayan-glaciers-recover.html

          The small warming of the latter part of last century, caused by a series of strong solar cycles, has STOPPED. It looks like the solar cycles will be very weak over then next several decades, hopefully we won’t drop too far. Another LIA would cause huge amount of problems, especially with so many energy supply systems now on borderline collapse due to useless non-alternatives.

          Sea Ice is above average

          No atmospheric warming for 18 years

          ARGO buoys showing basically no sea warming

          Its looking more and more that we are passed the small molehill of warming, and heading for another valley.

        • AndyG55 says:

          “but the last ultra-rapid warming”

          what a load of further BS !!!!

          The small warming from 1970 – 1995 was no faster than from 1915 – 1945

          It is neither large, nor ultra-rapid.

          In the whole of the satellite data, the ONLY warming was about 0.3ºC from the 1998 EL Nino. Since 2001, the culmination of that event, the RSS satellite record has cooled slightly.

          In the US, the only system that tries to get an even spatial distributing of surface temperatures, USCRN, (established in 2005), shows the USA COOLING at 0.5ºC/decade
          USHCN data has actually COOLED at about 0.8ºC/ decade since 2005

          Be very happy that we have warmed a bit since the LIA, because it looks like that’s all there is going to be.

        • Andrew Troup says:

          Well, I suppose I’ll just have to hope that all you folk are actually sock puppets for one very stupid person, perhaps Sarah Palin’s long-lost clever-clogs cousin and nephew.
          The alternative explanation, that there is actually a smattering of people like you in North America, is simply too depressing to contemplate.

        • gator69 says:

          Is that part of the IPCC report? I’m having trouble finding a reference Andrew Andrew Andrew, douche sac peu de poulet.

        • AndyG55 says:

          What Trougher Troup? Do you mean people that actually study the science.. and understand it.

          Yes , that would be depressing for you, people who see straight through all the propaganda BS spewed out by the likes of you and your non-alternative energy scammers.

          What is your job in the non-alternative energy scam.. development officer or something ?

        • Marsh says:

          Andrew , I believe you fit the earlier title : Global Warming is a Religion. If one is totally given to the faith that Greenhouse Gasses are Holy & Souly to blame for Hypothectical Warming you’re indoctrinated. Others explained the situation well with other posts…

        • AndyG55 says:

          “douche sac peu de poulet.”

          Google translates that as “shower bag a little chicken”

          Do you mean ‘rubber chicken’?

    • Gail Combs says:

      AHHH yes the old lie “… we’re losing the thick ice component, and that is a better indicator of warming temperatures.”

      It was never a cause for alarm because:
      #1. Sea Ice melts from the bottom due to ocean temperatures. Those temperatures are cyclical.
      North Atlantic Sea Surface Temperature (NOAA)

      Global monthly heat content anomaly (GJ/m2) in the uppermost 700 m of the North Atlantic (60-0W, 30-65N) ocean since January 1979.
      Notice the heat content peaked in 2007 and is now trending down.

      The is also an atmospheric cycle is called : The Arctic Oscillation (AO)

      NOAA
      The Arctic Oscillation (AO) is a large scale mode of climate variability, also referred to as the Northern Hemisphere annular mode. The AO is a climate pattern characterized by winds circulating counterclockwise around the Arctic at around 55°N latitude. When the AO is in its positive phase, a ring of strong winds circulating around the North Pole acts to confine colder air across polar regions. This belt of winds becomes weaker and more distorted in the negative phase of the AO, which allows an easier southward penetration of colder, arctic airmasses and increased storminess into the mid-latitudes….
      http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/teleconnections/ao/

      The loss of Arctic sea ice in 2007 was due to storm winds that blew the ice out of the Arctic through Fram Strait.

      NASA
      A team led by Son Nghiem of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., studied trends in Arctic perennial ice cover by combining data from NASA’s Quick Scatterometer (QuikScat) satellite with a computing model based on observations of sea ice drift from the International Arctic Buoy Programme. QuikScat can identify and map different classes of sea ice, including older, thicker perennial ice and younger, thinner seasonal ice.

      “Unusual atmospheric conditions set up wind patterns that compressed the sea ice, loaded it into the Transpolar Drift Stream and then sped its flow out of the Arctic,” said Son Nghiem of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory and leader of the study. When that sea ice reached lower latitudes, it rapidly melted in the warmer waters.
      http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/quikscat-20071001.html

    • gator69 says:

      Andrew Andrew Andrew, douche sac peu de poulet.

    • Gail Combs says:

      “… we’re losing the thick ice component, and that is a better indicator of warming temperatures.”

      Actually the temperatures in the Arctic in summer have been below normal all summer long for the last two years. The blue line near the top is 0C, 32F the freezing point of water. Only temperatures above that line can melt the ice.

      Summer Temperatures North of 80 dgree North
      2011

      2012

      2013

      2014

    • AndyG55 says:

      “Which was an authentic occasion for genuine alarm”

      Why? The low was caused by the break-up of summer ice by a large storm.

      The Russians finally had some extended use of their northern sea ports.

      Other than that , I can see no reason for alarm of any sort.

    • AndyG55 says:

      “which is beyond alarming”

      Again? .. do you need a change of nappy !!!

    • AndyG55 says:

      As for glacier melt.. glaciers come and go.

      Most started melting as we came out of the LIA and some are continuing to.

      Glacier melt due to CO2 warming is a load of crap !!

      Some glaciers come and go and have reasonable history to them showing this to be a fact
      https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2015/04/18/the-rhone-glacier-then-and-now/#comment-41751

    • AndyG55 says:

      Andrew, you want to know what is REALLY ALARMING?

      1. The thought that the beneficial warming may actually have peaked, and the world is about to cool again.

      2. The thought that there are many idiots out there that think CO2, the building block of all life on Earth, is somehow a pollutant.

      3. The fact that there are complete morons out there that want to limit or to even reduce said atmospheric CO2 back to basic plant survival limits of below 300ppm.

      But thankfully, China, India, and probably soon, some of the African states etc will keep up their supply of life-giving CO2 to the atmosphere for many, many years to come 🙂

      • Gail Combs says:

        Andrew you forgot the biggie.

        Not only is the earth about to cool again but we are ~ 200 years over due for the drop into glaciation. Even if we manage to escape an actual glaciation it will only be by the skin of our teeth and the climate will make the Little Ice Age look down right balmy.

        A Pliocene-Pleistocene stack of 57 globally distributed benthic D18O records
        Lisiecki & Raymo
        ….Recent research has focused on MIS 11 as a possible analog for the present interglacial [e.g., Loutre and Berger, 2003; EPICA Community Members, 2004] because both occur during times of low eccentricity. The LR04 age model establishes that MIS 11 spans two precession cycles,….

        However, the 21 June insolation minimum at 65°N during MIS 11 is only 489 W/m2, much less pronounced than the present minimum of 474 W/m2. In addition, current insolation values are not predicted to return to the high values of late MIS 11 for another 65 kyr. We propose that this effectively precludes a ‘‘double precession cycle’’ interglacial [e.g., Raymo, 1997] in the Holocene without human influence….

        According to NOAA the June insolation at 60°N is now 47 Wm-2 less than it was during the Holocene peak insolation 11,000 years ago. The present June insolation is only 12 Wm-2 higher than the depths of the Wisconsin Ice Age and the earth will be bumping along at a low insolation for the next 65,000 years.

        Something else to think about. The Holocene interglacial is now 11,717 years old.
        The insolation was 522.50 Wm-2 12,000 years ago and the peak insolation was 523.16 Wm-2 11,000 years ago…..

        Dr Brown is right ice ball is the more stable condition for earth.

    • AndyG55 says:

      I don’t think poor nappy-boy knows that while some glaciers are receding, they are often finding tree stumps and old human artefacts etc underneath them, indicating that the only thing unusual about the current position of these glaciers, is that they are more extended NOW than they have been in the not too distant past.

      But when he only has the intelligence to the ingest brain-washing alarmista claptrap, its no wonder he doesn’t actually know much about anything, or have the ability to actually think for himself.
      Gees, next he’ll be linking to SkS or somewhere equally as moronically non-scientific.

  7. Gail Combs says:

    Since the Holocene Optimum glaciers have increased.
    Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic

    …. Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ~11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3°C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present. Early Holocene summer sea ice limits were substantially smaller than their 20th century average, and the flow of Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean was substantially greater. As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers re-established or advanced, sea ice expanded…

    Ice free Arctic Ocean, an Early Holocene analogue

    Abstract
    Extensive systems of wave generated beach ridges along the North Greenland coasts show that these areas once saw seasonally open water. In addition to beach ridges, large amounts of striated boulders in and on the marine sediments from the same period also indicate that the ocean was open enough for ice bergs to drift along the shore and drop their loads. Presently the North Greenland coastline is permanently beleaguered by pack ice, and ice bergs are very rare and locked up in the sea ice. Predictions of the rapidly decreasing sea ice in the Arctic Ocean generally point to this area as the last to become ice free in summer. We therefore suggest that the occurrence of wave generated shores and abundant ice berg dropped boulders indicate that the Arctic Ocean was nearly free of sea ice in the summer at the time when they were formed. The beach ridges occur as isostatically raised “staircases”, and C14-dated curves for relative sea level change show that they were formed in the Early Holocene. A large set of samples of molluscs from beach ridges and marine sediments were collected in the summer of 2007, and are presently being dated to give a precise dating of the ice free interval. Preliminary results indicate that it fell within the interval from c. 8.5 to c. 6 ka – being progressively shorter from south to north. We therefore conclude that for a period in the Early Holocene, probably for a millenium or more, the Arctic Ocean was free of sea ice at least for shorter periods in the summer….

    A new approach for reconstructing glacier variability based on lake sediments recording input from more than one glacier January 2012

    …. A multi-proxy numerical analysis demonstrates that it is possible to distinguish a glacier component in the ~ 8000-yr-long record, based on distinct changes in grain size, geochemistry, and magnetic composition…. This signal is …independently tested through a mineral magnetic provenance analysis of catchment samples. Minimum glacier input is indicated between 6700–5700 cal yr BP, probably reflecting a situation when most glaciers in the catchment had melted away, whereas the highest glacier activity [growth] is observed around 600 and 200 cal yr BP. During the local Neoglacial interval (~ 4200 cal yr BP until present), five individual periods of significantly reduced glacier extent are identified at ~ 3400, 3000–2700, 2100–2000, 1700–1500, and ~ 900 cal yr BP….

    In otherwords in Norway glaciers have been re-established with the most growth in the last 600 years.

    ANOTHER METHOD OF VALIDATION

    Sea Level Changes Past Records and Future Expectations

    For the last 40-50 years strong observational facts indicate virtually stable sea level conditions. The Earth’s rate of rotation records an [average] acceleration from 1972 to 2012, contradicting all claims of a rapid global sea level rise, and instead suggests stable, to slightly falling, sea levels.

    If sea levels are falling glaciers are net gaining ice.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Gail, Facts aren’t going to help this twerp. He has been drinking the alarmista warm spew for way too long.. His addiction is total.

      We are a very small amount above the COLDEST part of the whole Holocene interglacial, Somewhere part way up to the temperatures of the MWP, and way below the Holocene Optimum.

      Cooling is the world’s biggest worry, NOT warming.

  8. Gail Combs says:

    “…. Well over nine-tenths of the excess energy we receive from the sun due to the greenhouse effect goes into the ocean, and much of the rest goes into melting and subliming of glacier and other year-round ice. The long term trend data from those two heatsinks are beyond alarming….”
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    What the HELL?

    I have never seen such a mishmash of confused ideas. Let’s see if we can straighten them out.

    This is the sun’s energy spectrum:

    On the left is EUV, UV then Visible with Infrared on the right. Note the absorption bands for CO2 gas is off to the right.

    This graph from the University of Colorado (SORCE) shows that it is the visible to EUV wavelengths that are absorbed by the ocean. (Do not confuse water vapor absorption with liquid water absorption)

    This graph looks only at the wavelengths on the right side, the visible to EUV wavelengths and the depth to which they penentrate the ocean. Note the wavelength radiated from CO2 is off the chart to the right and does not penetrate beyond the surface skin.

    So it is the high energy EUV to Vis wavelengths that affect the oceans.

    The next question is does the amount of energy in those wavelengths from the sun varyover time?

    The answer from NASA is YES!
    Sources of Energy for the Earth’s Atmosphere
    Solar Radiation………………………..Change
    TSI (mostly Visible & Infrared)….0.1%
    MUV (200-300 nm)……………………..1%
    FUV (126-200 nm)……………………..30%
    EUV (0-125 nm)………………………..100%
    http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sdo/science/Solar%20Irradiance.html

    • AndyG55 says:

      Gail, are you saying that just a small change in the frequency component of the suns UV output can radically change the penetration into sea water. 😉

      Had a paper linked somewhere that showed exactly that. can’t find the actual paper any more, but here is one similar.

      http://spgftp.ucsd.edu/People/Mati/2003_Ahmad_et_al_UV_radiation_SPIE.pdf

      Figures 5 and b show the large difference in penetration between 310nm and 380nm UV light.

      • Gail Combs says:

        Interesting paper. Seems there are a lot of factors affecting the absorption of radiation/heat by the oceans.
        ……

        My last graph comes from a Dutch Article. An English translation is HERE.

        It includes ” a very nice diagram ( Schematic plot of open ocean surface thermal structures )” from NASA

        The graph is also in the link paper Donlon et al Toward Improved Validation of Satellite Sea Surface Skin Temperature Measurements for Climate Research

        Now that paper gets into some real interesting stuff especially when you consider the oceans cover over 70% of the earth. You can get as much as a 4C temperature differential in less than the first meter of ocean. However that differential is dependent on time of day and wind. Not only that but the ‘skin’ temperature is not really related to the temperature of those first three feet. It is all over the place. Anywhere from 0.2 C to ~2.0C cooler than the water directly below. (evaporative cooling anyone?)

        The paper is certainly worth a read since it puts a big ? next to the accuracy tof the satellite sea surface temperature measurements and any other SST measurements.

    • daveburton says:

      Gail, your first graph link has already gone dead. Fortunately, the WaybackMachine has it here:

  9. Ted says:

    In arguing with Andrew Troup, I think you’re all missing something very important:

    “The “slow decline” you crow about, is from the lowest annual maximum winter extent *ever* recorded.”

    He’s staring right at a chart which proves his assertion is wrong. But his betters have told him to believe their words, and ignore the numbers. This problem is pervasive, and simply can’t be argued with. He truly, unshakably, believes that he isn’t capable of reading the data for himself, and needs to rely on people better than him to tell him what a chart says.

    I disagree with him. Not on his belief that he’s incapable of reading a chart. I don’t claim to know his capabilities. I disagree with his belief that there are people better than him. There aren’t. There’s no one better than Andrew Troup. There’s no one better than Gail Combs. There’s no one better than Tony, there’s no one better than me, or anyone else. That’s the most basic, most fundamental problem in modern society. I’m not a religious man. I’m temperamentally incapable of blind faith, in anything. But it’s clear to me that when the concept of a higher power is removed from society, the possibility for equality is also removed. In no objective sense are any two people equal. By human standards, some people will always be judged better than others. Thomas Jefferson chose his words very carefully when he wrote “All men are created equal.” Only through the lens of a higher power can all men be see as equals. Without that lens, people like Andrew Troup will keep believing that he has betters, and that whatever they say must be believed.

    • Gail Combs says:

      “…., people like Andrew Troup will keep believing that he has betters, and that whatever they say must be believed.”

      It is a basic premise of collectivism:

      When he [Josef Stalin] became Comrade Number One, his main goal was to consolidate power. Of course, he used Marxism-Leninism to explain this move. Tom West described Stalin’s outlook:

      Only one man, the wisest and strongest of all, can be entrusted with the task of building socialism. And this man must not flinch from inflicting mass killings, deliberate famines, and torture involving the suffering and deaths of many millions of people. The Wise Man must employ whatever means he deems necessary to root out the millions of enemies of the people so that he can lead men to perpetual peace, happiness, and total communization.

      From the book Willing Accomplices: How KGB Covert Influence Agents Created Political Correctness and Destroyed America by Kent Clizbe

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s