Latest From The World’s Stupidest People

With record snow in the west, team climate moron is holding a giant climate prediction circle jerk.

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The first thing the Northwest is going to have to adapt to – is sub-zero football this weekend.

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Mt. Rainier is forecast to get another 15 feet of snow this week.

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Wondering where all the snow is? Mount Rainier is forecast to get more than 15 feet this week. – The Washington Post

Snowfall in Boulder, Colorado has been increasing in frequency and depth for century. The last three years have brought snow more often than one day out of every ten. February 2015 was the snowiest month on record in Boulder.

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Same pattern in Fort Collins, Colorado

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The length of the snow free season in Fort Collins has shrunk by twenty days since the 19th century. Snow falls later in the spring and earlier in the autumn than it used to.

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Northern hemisphere autumn and winter snow cover has increased to record levels, due to cold Arctic air pushing further and further south.

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Rutgers University Climate Lab :: Global Snow Lab

Almost the entire state of New Mexico is covered in snow, right down to the Mexican border.

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Climate experts have fully retreated from the real world, and reside is the fantasy land their funding requires. Children will grow up to believe that scientists are all idiots or liars.

About stevengoddard

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270 Responses to Latest From The World’s Stupidest People

  1. No, they will grow up to believe that climate science, like christian science, political science, etc., are just things that include the word science for no particular reason.

    • Gail Combs says:

      IF they get to grow -up at all.

      What Marty and others don’t realize is it doesn’t take full glaciation to be a royal PITA for the human race. The slide into glaciation is quite bad enough especially when the goal of ‘world leaders’ is to squeeze every last drop of wealth from the masses even if they have to starve them to death.

      “The lesson from the last interglacial “greenhouse” in the Bahamas is that the closing of that interval brought sea-level changes that were rapid and extreme. This has prompted the remark that between the greenhouse and the icehouse lies a climatic “madhouse”! — Neuman and Hearty (1996)

      Even a drop back into the weather of the 1970’s could be worrying. The Köppen climate classification, widely used, vegetation-based empirical climate classification system. In the 1970’s the climatic change shifted the Köppen climate boundary over 2 degrees lat. or 150 miles (240 K) south.

      This is a major problem for Canada and Russia and the rest of the world.

      Russia has a greater land area than any other country on earth and is one of the world’s most important grain producers, but its grains sector faces a special set of challenges. That vast land mass is a factor behind huge logistical problems, while a variable climate has meant big swings in production volume.

      The International Grains Council (IGC) puts Russia’s total grain production at 85.8 million tonnes in 2013-14, compared to 67.1 million the year before….
      http://www.world-grain.com/Departments/Country%20Focus/Country%20Focus%20Home/Focus%20on%20Russia.aspx

      Especially since the Grain Traders convinced the USA to ditch a grain reserve and turn the excess into biofuel.

      “In summary, we have record low grain inventories globally as we move into a new crop year. We have demand growing strongly. Which means that going forward even small crop failures are going to drive grain prices to record levels. As an investor, we continue to find these long term trends…very attractive.” Food shortfalls predicted: 2008 http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/dancy/2008/0104.html

      Goldman Sachs LOVED it! How Goldman Sachs Created the Food Crisis

      Dan Amstutz is the thread who runs through out. Under President Reagan (Yes a Republican) Dan Amstutz, VP of Cargill, wrote the draft Agreement on Agriculture (AoA) as USDA undersecretary for international affairs. Amstutz also wrote the “Freedom to Farm Bill” later known as Freedom to Fail Act that wiped out USA farmers, the US Strategic Grain Reserve and set-up the 2008 food crisis orchestrated by Goldman Sachs. Amstutz also worked for Goldman Sachs and was president of the North American Export Grain Association (NAEGA) from 1994 to 2000. “Throughout his very successful career Dan Amstutz represented and championed ideas and goals of NAEGA membership. “ — A Lasting Tribute by the NAEGA who developed the Amstutz Award to honor the baby killer.

      “Recently there have been increased calls for the development of a U.S. or international grain reserve to provide priority access to food supplies for Humanitarian needs. The National Grain and Feed Association (NGFA) and the North American Export Grain Association (NAEGA) strongly advise against this concept..Stock reserves have a documented depressing effect on prices… and resulted in less aggressive market bidding for the grains.” July 22, 2008 letter to President Bush http://www.naega.org/images/pdf/grain_reserves_for_food_aid.pdf

      Back to the 1970s grain crisis.
      The 1974 CIA report:
      “A Study of Climatological Research as it Pertains to Intelligence Problems”

      pg7
      … Since 1972 the grain crisis has intensified…. Since 1969 the storage of grain has decreased from 600 million metric tons to less than 100 million metric tons – a 30 day supply… many governments have gone to great lengths to hide their agricultural predicaments from other countries as well as from their own people…

      pg 9
      The archaeologists and climatotologists document a rather grim history… There is considerable evidence that these empires may not have been undone by barbarian invaders but by climatic change…. has tied several of these declines to specific global cool periods, major and minor, that affected global atmospheric circulation and brought wave upon wave of drought to formerly rich agricultural lands.

      Refugees from these collapsing civilizations were often able to migrate to better lands… This would be of little comfort however,… The world is too densely populated and politically divided to accommodate mass migration.

  2. OrganicFool says:

    It’s not cold in Minnesota in January until it’s -20. It’s common to get to -50 in parts of Minnesota at some point in winter. Vikings will have a home-field advantage! Should be a good game. Fans will be in the parking lot having tailgate parties, playing broomball and hockey like no big deal.

    • There have only been nine sub-zero games in NFL history.

      The Vikings’ coldest playoff game at Met Stadium was 9 degrees in 1970 against San Francisco. Their coldest game, -2 against Chicago, was the sixth most frigid in NFL history.

    • Cold schmold. We get -20 all the time in northern NY.

    • philjourdan says:

      Minnesota lost the cold advantage when they went to a domed (or balloon as the case is) stadium. Greenbay on the other hand still plays on frozen fields.

      • OrganicFool says:

        That’s true! They had the Metrodome from 1982 to 2013. So maybe the Vikings will be feeling the challenge? “This is the first time since 1976 that an NFL playoff game will be played outdoors in Minneapolis”. http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2016/01/06/minnesota-vikings-playoff-game-coldest-nfl-history/78358966/ (Good to see Bud Grant is still alive and kickin’).

        If it wasn’t for the Metrodome, there possibly would have been other below-zero games added to the list.

        They’re building a new indoor stadium. I guess global warming is not really something Minnesotans are counting on.

        As Gail mentioned, it isn’t unusual for farmers and ranchers to lose thousands of their livestock in the snow and cold. Also, people are often found dead every winter within about 100 yards of their vehicles after getting caught in blizzards and -80 windchills back there.

        In the recent snow fall in New Mexico, a couple was trapped in their vehicle for over 20 hours as their vehicle was buried in snow. It was good they had a cell phone and could explain to the rescue vehicles of their location. It was a cell phone in the early days of the technology that helped save a woman in South Dakota that went off the road in a whiteout, I can recall. It took triangulation of cell towers and helicopters to rescue her. Governor Bill Janklow wasn’t happy about the bill to save her, however! I think he even threatened to send her the bill.

        I’ll take my chances with heat over cold. Being from the north, I’m thankful for fossil fuels.

        My parents went through the Great Depression and my dad served in WWII, as many here can relate I’m sure. My grandmother at one time lived on the prairie out in the middle of nowhere in South Dakota (to try farmsteading) and my dad would take the train to visit. He would go into town and buy basic goods for her and drop them out the train window for her as he went back home. He was super thankful for indoor toilet, running water, a furnace, and electric lights.

        It wasn’t that long ago when people were living the “green” life and it wasn’t all that great. My dad would laugh and shake his head in confusion at these people today.

        • philjourdan says:

          Wellllll….. Some Minnesotans are hoping for Global Warming. http://m4gw.com/😉

        • Gail Combs says:

          The problem is too many people are too far away from actually living the “green” life and therefore have ZERO appreciation for indoor plumbing, central heating, abundant fresh, frozen and convenience foods, easy communication, quick travel and all the other wonders that industrialization has brought us. They rather sit on there fat rumps and whine about CO2 pollution.

          I would really really like to drop every single one of them into the 1600s for a few years and then ask them how they like the “green” life. Or maybe just ship them all to North Korea.

  3. Mark Luhman says:

    The unfortunate part is next week I will be in North Dakota, somehow I am there on one of the coldest weeks so far, after 55 of them I thought I had given them up but work has pulled me back, somehow soggy Arizona looks pretty good right now, to bad I have to leave it for a while. Oh by the way I been in -50 and -40s lots of times. Try to explain to a Arizona that in Minnesota -15 below in the first of November is not all that unusual. If you check you will see Minnesota has measured -30 a least once from October through March, I not certain about April.

    • There have only been nine sub-zero games in NFL history.

      The Vikings’ coldest playoff game at Met Stadium was 9 degrees in 1970 against San Francisco. Their coldest game, -2 against Chicago, was the sixth most frigid in NFL history.

  4. resistance says:

    Current PNW ski area snow stats:
    http://data.nwac.us/CLISNO/CLISNO.TXT

    All areas are >110% of average, with the exception of Stevens Pass, which is 92% (as of the end of December). Seeing how Snoqualmie, one Cascade pass south of Stevens, Crystal, a couple of Cascade passes south of Stevens, and Baker, a couple of Cascade passes north of Stevens, are all well above average, I think it qualifies as local weather.

    The skiing here was epic in December. The 17th thru the 23rd was unreal at Crystal (check out the bar chart at their snow page http://crystalmountainresort.com/the-mountain/current-conditions/)! Knee deep, blower powder, i.e. cold, on multiple days! Definitely the best days since at least the 2010/2011 and/or 2011/2012 La Niña seasons. Oh, and Baker and Crystal have two of the top five deepest snow bases in North America right now.

    Last year sucked bad for the PNW ski areas; there’s no question about it. Worst season on record for most areas. Crystal had ~235″ total all season, which is about 50% of average. They’ve already eclipsed that mark this year.

  5. Richard Keen says:

    With regards to Boulder climate records, caveat emptor applies.
    Since 1990 +/- the record is meticulous, being kept by genuine weather geeks and data tyros. As a fellow co-op observer (for nearby Coal Creek Canyon, 4000 feet higher) I’ll vouch for their care and diligence.
    But before 1990, the record is checkered (rhymes). There was a period in the 1980s when the thermometer was placed near a building so it would be more convenient, the rain gauge was near an active sprinkler, and snow wasn’t measured until 5 pm, even if it ended hours earlier and half melted. From 1947 to 1970, the thermometer was on the roof of the downtown fire station, easily adding a +2F bias to all readings.
    The chart of annual snowfall does not give seasonal snowfall, of course, but back in the snow season of 1979-80, several of us snow geeks in town measured 150 inches or so for the seasonal total, while the “official” record was much less – maybe 100 inches. Most Boulder snow historians will grant that as Boulder’s snowiest winter ever, although you’d never know that from the official records.
    So, again, caveat emptor.

    • The pattern in Fort Collins is almost exactly the same.

      • Richard Keen says:

        Thanks for posting the FCL records, and yep, the snowfall pattern is similar to Boulder.
        Except in the 1980s, which is a min in Boulder and a max in FCL. Knowing the FCL observers at the time, I’d say that record is the correct one. Especially that spike in 1979/80.

  6. AndyG55 says:

    On a sort of related track

    weather-related-losses-have-been-in-DECLINE-since-1990

    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/01/06/weather-related-losses-have-been-in-decline-since-1990/

    • Gail Combs says:

      There is another point that this post of Steven’s highlights. It is a point all, or at least most of us miss.

      It is LAND that cools the fastest. That is why 65N is critical to the Milankovitch cycles.

      The Oceans are giant hot water bottles keeping the COASTAL areas warm a lot longer than the interior. Remember the coastal areas are where most of the cities (and recording stations) are while the interior, like the US great plains and Russian & Canadian wheat belts are where the farms are. This means world temperatures, especially NOAAs, mean diddley because we are measuring the wrong place. If farmland cools we are in deep caca especially given the new government policies I mentioned above.

      The energy in the lower atmosphere is actually temperature PLUS water (latent heat of vaporization) When the earth cools it gets drier and if the energy in water vapor is ignored you could actually see the temperature rise as the earth cools. (Deserts are hotter than rain forests for this reason.)

      Frank Lansner has done quite a bit of work separating out the temperature signal from coastal areas vs interior. January 6, 2014 The Original Temperatures Project

      An example:

      In the writing “RUTI Coastal stations” (based on GHCN V2 raw) I found that Non-coastal temperatures (blue graph) were much more cold trended from around 1930 than the Coastal trends (red). http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/ruti/coastal-temperature-stations.php

      I hope the red line is visible.
      Frank also has a very telling comment on BEST (Zeke, the Mosh pup & Muller)

      For all countries analysed so far, the BEST national data is nearly identical with the coastal trends and the Ocean Air Affected (“OAA”) locations. The data from the Ocean Air Shelter (“OAS”) stations appears to be completely ignored by the BEST project country after country after country. Just as we saw for HISTALP.

      So by using mostly COASTAL big city weather stations BEST and Gavin can wipe out that irritating 1940’s blip.

      2009

      2010

      And it gets worse as times goes by.
      Jan 2015

      The True size of Africa for the GoreBots.

      ………………..
      I don’t want this bit of info lost.
      Al Tekhasski has a great comment on “The Elusive Absolute Surface Air Temperature (SAT)”

      Interestingly, when I loaded their zonal averages, I tired to check if corresponding baselines (1951-1980) add up to zero, as they should by definition. They did not.

      So, what a wonderful baloney all this “science” is. What has escaped the attention of those scientists is that the basic reason why they cannot agree on “universally correct answer” because there is no correct answer, because the parameter they choose, the “global average temperature”, has no physical meaning. Very clever approach!

      What a bunch of slime you find every time you you dig into the ClimAstrologist’s records.

      • Frank K. says:

        “The True size of Africa for the GoreBots.”

        That’s a really cool image. Thanks Gail!

      • Menicholas says:

        Deserts are only hotter during the day Gail. As I am sure you are aware.

        • Gail Combs says:

          I used to think that too then a few years ago Sleepalot and I looked at the real world data. link (Lost of discussion pro and con)

          But it all goes back to the ENERGY = Temperature + energy bound in water vapor.

        • Gail Combs says:

          And yes I am aware that deserts are very cold at night but the mean is higher for deserts than it is for a rain forest. It surprised me until I thought about it.

          ENERGY = Temperature + energy bound in water vapor.

          That is why temperature is a really rotten parameter to measure.

        • wizzum says:

          And they’re dark at night too….WTF is that about

        • Gail Combs says:

          wizzum,
          It is about why ‘Global Temperature’ is an idiotic thing to calculate. Especially when it is used to wreck the economy. It is also a rotten number for determining climate or whether or not the climate is cooling or warming since land away from the influence of the sea responds faster to climate change compared to the oceans.

          For farmers growing our food this is a very critical point esp. when the governments are lying their heads off.

        • Menicholas says:

          Well, in the final analysis, I would think it matters most what desert one is comparing, to what rainforest.
          The Olympic Peninsula rainforest is cooler than the Kalahari desert, just to hazard a guess, and the Amazon rainforest must be warmer than the Gobi desert, no?

        • Menicholas says:

          And I think Wizzum may be right…it is dark at night out in the middle of nowhere. Even if it is not a desert. Cold in winter, too.

        • Menicholas says:

          The other thing that needs to be pointed out is that rainforests are cooled by rain falling from altitude, and deserts are warmed by dry air descending and heating up by compression. This is true whether they are rain shadow deserts, or those in the descending part of the Hadley cell, like the Sahara.
          So I do not think it is really a simple issue at all. Heat is being actively transported in these regions.

      • Gonzo says:

        Awesome graphic of Africa Gail! Kudos to you.

      • verdeviewer says:

        Gail,

        The 2015 “NCDC Measured” map of Africa doesn’t appear accurate, since it shows Niger as being essentially station-free.

        Niger has 18 stations in the GHCN inventory dating back to 1906, with 15 still reporting in 2015.

        I looked up various African and Middle East station records in response to the much-repeated 2010 article by Joe Romm spewing Jeff Master’s claims that “nine countries have smashed all-time temperature records.”

        In the case of Niger, where all the stations have spotty records, the Saharan oasis town of Bilma “smashed” its 1939 record of 47.8°C by a whopping 0.5°. However, the claim that’s a record for Niger appears to be an outright lie, since Guigny recorded 49.8°C in 1988 and Niamey recorded 50.8°C in 1976.

        The all-time record “smashed” in Kuwait was at Abdaly—a station that set the previous record when it first opened in 2005.

        • Gail Combs says:

          The map is actually Steven Goddard’s and it is only for the month of January. What may be happening is what E.M. Smith found happening in Bolivia.

          (The official excuse given is that the data acceptance window closes on one day of the month and Bolivia does not report until after that date. Oh, and they never ever would want to go back and add date into the past after a close date. Yet they are happy to fiddle with, adjust, modify, and wholesale change and delete old data as they change their adjustment methods…)
          https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/ghcn-gistemp-interactions-the-bolivia-effect/

          So the data could easily be reported and available but not actually used. Given that it is coming from third world countries the chances the data is too late is very good.

          KevinUK also did some work on the station dropout problem (many many blog posts)

          …The primary purpose of this new thread is to show charts of the number (i.e. count) of stations by year in the NOAA (and so therefore more or less GISS also) GHCN raw and adjusted datasets.

          Because I’ve further broken down the station counts by ‘WMO Region’ and still further by Country for each of the separate charts for each WMO Region, I’ve chosen to display the charts as both ‘stacked’ area charts and ‘unstacked’ area charts.Because there are many countries in any given WMO Region, I’ve also chosen to show separate series for the ‘Top 10’ countries in a region and have lumped the remainder into an ‘All Others’ category….

          There’s not that much to see in Africa really. With the possible exception of South Africa, no one country dominates. What is evident, as with most of the other WMO regions, is the step increase in the number of reporting stations in what seems like most if not all of the African countries in around 1950. There appear to be two stages to the station ‘drop outs’ . The familarly 1989/1990 ‘drop out’ appears to be preceded by a further ‘drop out’ period at around 1978/79. There’s also an observable doubling in the number of reporting South African stations from 1961 onwards until the 1989/1990 ‘drop out’. From about 2002/3 almost 50% of the contribution towards the African station count comes from only one country – Algeria. What happened to the South African stations?
          https://diggingintheclay.wordpress.com/2010/01/21/the-station-drop-out-problem/

          That is from 2010 but as you can see the number of stations was drastically reduced and the number used erratic.

        • gator69 says:

          So the data could easily be reported and available but not actually used.

          That would also be my assumption, it is well known that active stations are being ignored. Artifacts are being fabricated, instead of actual data being reported

        • verdeviewer says:

          Thanks for the additional info. Maybe I’ll see the drop-out issue when I look at other African nations. I don’t see it with Niger or Nigeria daily summaries.

          The link to the maps gives me a 404. No matter. Just pointing out there is Niger station data in the form of GHCN daily summaries from NCDC. (Also noting that some fear mongers ignore what’s inconvenient to their narrative.)

          There are plenty of days with missing data in the daily summaries. Bilma, Niger, is missing about 25%, while Nigerian stations I looked at were missing more than 90%. Kinda hard to get trends or averages without filling in some blanks.

          That said, it’s doubtful the Niger data is being ignored. There are hefty uptrends at some stations (perhaps related to a 50-year population increase from 1.7 to 15.7 million).

          Data charted at verdeviews.com.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Thanks for the info. As I said the map was Steven Goddards and only for one month.

          E.M. Smith did a similar map for 2009 HERE

          … I’d have liked to have used a 0 km smoothing so you could see just how small an area is really covered, but GISS only let you do 250 km at the smallest. Notice how much of this map is grey….

  7. Martin Smith says:

    Steven, for months, you have been telling us that the Arctic sea ice was increasing at a record pace. I’m sure you said that here more than a few times. Apparently it started from a very low value because it still hasn’t gotten out of the hole yet:
    http://climatecrocks.com/2016/01/06/sea-ice-starts-2016-in-the-hole/

    Who are accusing of fraud on this? Do you have any evidence of fraud, or will you continue to rest on your own private graph?

    BTW, it has always been expected that snowfall in the mountains will increase as warming increases. At least for some time. Do I really have to explain to your readers why that increase must happen, or will you man up and do it yourself?

    • AndyG55 says:

      Two points you have yet to answer.. because you KNOW you can’t

      1. Arctic sea ice is pretty much where it should be for the phase of the AMO

      2. Arctic sea is very much higher than the first 3/4 of the Holocene

      Until you can answer either one of these points you really ought to STFU,

      or prove yourself to be the moronic, brain-washed AGW cretin that you are.

    • AndyG55 says:

      And seriously,.. citing that moron, incompetent, low-end video maker..

      ….. you have surely got to have more than that !!

      Not even YOU can go that low……………………. oh wait.. that is where you came from.

      • cfgjd says:

        Andy why do scientists argue that LIA ended before the 20th century?

        • Gail Combs says:

          The Little Ice Age ended around 1850. I have posted that peer-reviewed paper several times in the last few days.

          Now tell me cfgjd,
          Tell me how much of the sea ice is in the ocean and how much is in the air?

        • catweazle666 says:

          What would you know about scientists?

        • Jason Calley says:

          “why do scientists argue that LIA ended before the 20th century?”

          Have you ever noticed that when you accidentally leave the door to the freezer section of your refrigerator open, that as soon as the warm room air hits it, all of the contents simultaneously and instantly melt?

        • AndyG55 says:

          Just because the LIA ended in 1850, doesn’t mean there wasn’t still some necessary warming to be had, and a LOT of extra sea ice still hanging around.

        • AndyG55 says:

          And there is PLENTY of anecdotal evidence that there was probably significantly lower sea ice in the 1920’s.

        • gator69 says:

          Winter in the NH ends long before the heat of Summer hits full stride. What is your point?

        • AndyG55 says:

          Whoops.. too early ….. meant the 1940’s…

    • AndyG55 says:

      “Who are accusing of fraud on this?”

      Does anyone see the word “fraud” in SG’s post.

      Sure , we see gross incompetence, scientific maleficence, morons, idiots, LIARS etc etc.

      And sure , we all know its FRAUD,, but SG does not use that word

      Marty just ASSUMES it is FRAUD……… because he knows it is FRAUD.

    • gator69 says:

      BTW, it has always been expected that snowfall in the mountains will increase as warming increases.

      So what model predicted this?

      After Texas experienced an uncharacteristically balmy Christmas Day, a massive blizzard struck the western half of the state. A dozen people died in the 48-hour-long storm that began Dec. 26, and the New York Times reported that a staggering 35,000 dairy cows were lost in the deluge.

      But it was not the cold that killed most the cows. While some did freeze to death, it is likely that the majority starved to death. According to the Times, with snow drifts as high as 14 feet in some spots, many ranchers judged the trek to feed their herds to be impossible.

      Gee, sure seems like the cows and people faired much better with warmer than average temperatures versus colder than average.

      Found that paper yet Marty? Or is it just more convenient to lie when it comes to protecting your precious cause?

      • Gail Combs says:

        More on that story…
        “Calves that had been nestled inside stalls starved when no one was able to reach them. Some farmers who tried to retrieve their animals got lost and disoriented….

        A dozen people died in the 48-hour-long storm…..

        ….. as farmers began to discover more cows and calves in the melting snow, the death toll surged to more than 35,000, or about 10 percent of dairy cows in the entire region.”

        And then the completely idiotic statement ONLY a citified no nothing journalist could make!

        “The striking level of animal carnage brought to light a concerning factor regarding the welfare of outdoor farm animals. Dairy cows graze outdoors year-round but can be kept in barns during severe weather….”

        Good grief didn’t the Arrogant A…hole READ what he himself just wrote???

        “Calves that had been nestled inside stalls starved when no one was able to reach them. Some farmers who tried to retrieve their animals got lost and disoriented….”
        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

        FIRST, what is the average age of the American Farmer? The average age is over 58 and 33 percent are 65 and older as of 2012. The older age groups all increased in number since the last Ag Census. And yeah they are retiring, (and selling to builders) the number of U.S. farmers declined between 2007 and 2012 going down 4.3 percent.

        Now picture granddad and grandma out staggering around in that blizzard…. It is a wonder no more people died. Or maybe both partners died and hadn’t been found at the time the story was written. ( more than 50 people were killed in 14 states and dozens were injured.)

        My Grandmother grew-up on a dairy farm and the barn was UNDER the house for just that reason. You can get to your animals to feed and milk them no matter what the weather. Now it is ILLEGAL to build a house barn combo….

        In northern climes when you know a blizzard is due you string a line from the house to the barn so you do not get lost. This is what my Father in -law did here in the Midwest. But you have to KNOW a blizzard is due or have the line strung in the fall.

        I lay the blame for these deaths on USDA Climate Hub to Provide Practical, Science-Based Information to Farmers, Ranchers and Forest Landowners and on NOAA who is so busy kissing Obama Arse that farmers and ranchers were completely unprepared.

        And yes I watch the weather closely but I am not sure all my animals would survive it that type of weather. Unfortunately even if you provided round bale hay under sheds they might not make it. “Turley said, “The snow was just one part of Goliath. It was the wind that led to drifts as high as 14 feet, where many animals died. Wind will push animals into a fenced corner where they can suffocate in snow drifts.””

        Unfortunately the Lying government Arses are sticking to the party line. Turley said. “It’s a once-in-a-lifetime (storm)”

      • Menicholas says:

        From what I read, those cows suffocated under snow drifts. The extreme winds forced them up against fence corners, and the 14′ drifts suffocated them.
        Happened all the way into New Mexico, not just Texas.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Yes, I was about to mention that. Even if you had run-in sheds with a round bail feeder full of hay they still might have been killed thanks to the wind and drifts.

          This is typical of the type of shelter you see in the south in the USA.

          or even this

    • Andy DC says:

      Martin,

      If there is warming, snow levels should be getting higher in the mountains, even assuming that there is more precipitation. There is absolutely no evidence that snow levels are getting higher. Can you prove that they are?

    • catweazle666 says:

      Martin Smith says:
      January 7, 2016 at 7:23 am
      “Steven, for months, you have been telling us…

      Martin, for months you’ve been making a fool of yourself with your idiotic, slanderous BS trolling.

      One day perhaps you will catch on to the concept of cyclic processes, and realise that extended linear trends flat out do not exist in any form of science, climate or otherwise, and that the use of regressions and other statistical methodology is only applicable to those with some grasp pf statistics, which doesn’t include you.

      So piss off back to your crackpot alarmist blogs run by mad women with obsessions about “hot whoppers” and similar fantasies, and leave science-oriented blogs to the scientifically literate.

      SHOO!

  8. Martin Smith says:

    I hope Seattle wins. I’m from Tacoma. I swam for the Wilson Rams. State champs every year. Yup, that’s me. Go Seahawks!

  9. Martin Smith says:

    Here’s a better Arctic sea ice graph. Easier to see what’s happening. Look up in the left hand corner:

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/

    The other left, Ted, the other left.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Two points you have yet to answer.. because you KNOW you can’t

      1. Arctic sea ice is pretty much where it should be for the phase of the AMO

      2. Arctic sea is very much higher than the first 3/4 of the Holocene

      Until you can answer either one of these points you really ought to STFU,

      or prove yourself to be the moronic, brain-washed AGW cretin that you are.

    • Dave G says:

      http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php

      DMI still says we started the year strong looking at 30% ice cover… Yours is only 15%..

      • Martin Smith says:

        The graph is wrong, Dave, because it it deliberately leaves out coastal areas. That’s not me saying so, it’s the DMI. The DMI also provides the correct graph. You can find the correct graph by clicking on the link in the explanation DMI provides on the incorrect graph, where the DMI explains why the incorrect graph is incorrect.

        • AndyG55 says:

          “it deliberately leaves out coastal areas. ‘

          Yes, that is because coastal area are indistinct and inaccurate.

          Again I say.

          PROVE that the data DMI is incorrect .. or WITHDRAW back into Big Al’s crevasse from whence you came..

        • Menicholas says:

          Martin, you seem incredibly imbecilic.
          You have variously stated that the graph is somehow Tony’s “private graph”, that the graph is wrong, that DMI provides the “correct” graph, and that the one you prefer is “better”.
          But you have also admitted that you are aware that both graphs are DMI products!
          They are measuring different things.
          Just to back up a little, say ten years or so…the graph that you claim is no stinkin’ good was the one in use by you alarmist jackasses for a very long time, back when it showed a supposedly alarming trend of decreasing sea ice (although just how it is that less of our planet locked into a perpetually frozen ice-hell wasteland, is somehow a disaster, was never explained very well). Yes, the graph with the coastal areas masked out was just fine for your warmista friends and you all along, right up until it needed to be discredited because it was not alarming enough for you.

          So, getting back to the original point…which is it Marty? Is it merely better, or is it “real” and the other one fake?
          Since they are both produced and presented by the same organization, by what strained logic is it Tony’s private graph?
          Since there is a clear explanation of why there are two graphs, measuring and presenting different data sets, by what set of twisted lie-baby rules in one wrong, and the other the correct one?
          Do you realize just how idiotic you make yourself out to be, to anyone paying even slight attention?
          Your warmista jackassery no longer even has any internal logic.

      • AndyG55 says:

        The graph is CORRECT.. PROVE where it is shows wrong data or STFU.

        Where is the data INCORRECT….. are you accusing DMI of fabrication of data ?

    • Gonzo says:

      Or you could look here and see the 30% ice is doing just fine. That little warm weather took out some of the slushy 15% ice but the base ice cap looks to be doing just fine marty. Much to your chagrin!

      http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.php

    • Ted says:

      Martin-

      Until right now, my only comment in this thread was a snide response to a comment Tony made about football games. I have no idea why you’d reference me in your completely off topic post. I don’t even comment about arctic sea ice extent, as I don’t follow it closely.

      Exactly what makes your graph more relevant than the ones Gail posts?

  10. Martin Smith says:

    http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php

    “The plot above replaces an earlier sea ice extent plot, that was based on data with the coastal zones masked out. This coastal mask implied that the previous sea ice extent estimates were underestimated. The new plot displays absolute sea ice extent estimates. The old plot can still be viewed here for a while.”

    • AndyG55 says:

      1. PROVE that the data is incorrect

      Counter the FACTS that

      2. Arctic sea ice is pretty much where it should be for the phase of the AMO

      3. Arctic sea is very much higher than the first 3/4 of the Holocene

      Do that.. or forever remain a low-end, ignorant CRETIN

      or run, run, run … and avoid answering these three points.

    • Gail Combs says:

      ” The old plot can still be viewed here for a while.”

      If the plot was WRONG or bad or whatever it would have been WITHDRAWN. Instead it is still available and still up dated.

      The only reason for the new graph is because they now have the ability (and computer power) to ESTIMATE the ice between 30% and 15% and the ice in all the bays and fjords along the coasts. This ESTIMATE is STILL going to be subject to a lot of error, which is why they stuck to 30% ice and masked the coastline in the first place!

      • oz4caster says:

        I’m wondering how they can estimate ice cover in the darkness of winter at high latitudes? When I look on NASA’s WorldView, the winter polar regions have no imagery from visible channels because of the darkness. There is still data from IR channels, but I’m not sure you can easily detect ice boundaries with the IR data.
        https://earthdata.nasa.gov/labs/worldview/

  11. AndyG55 says:

    Little goreboy has three points to respond to

    1. Prove that the DMI data is incorrect

    2. Arctic sea ice is pretty much where it should be for the phase of the AMO

    3. Arctic sea is very much higher than the first 3/4 of the Holocene

    Will he rise to the challenge .. or will he continue to AVOID ANSWERING

  12. Martin Smith says:

    The DMI says:
    “The plot above replaces an earlier sea ice extent plot, that was based on data with the coastal zones masked out. This coastal mask implied that the previous sea ice extent estimates were underestimated. The new plot displays absolute sea ice extent estimates. The old plot can still be viewed here for a while.”

    http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/icecover.uk.php

    • AndyG55 says:

      Still avoiding .. still RUNNING like a COWARD

      1. PROVE that the data is incorrect

      Counter the FACTS that

      2. Arctic sea ice is pretty much where it should be for the phase of the AMO

      3. Arctic sea is very much higher than the first 3/4 of the Holocene

      Do that.. or forever remain a low-end, ignorant CRETIN

      or run, run, run … and avoid answering these three points.

  13. AndyG55 says:

    Poor Marty, a dead fish with a mind of a single celled amoeba, dangling on the end of a fishing line.

    • AndyG55 says:

      And what’s even better.. he is stuck here.. HE CANNOT ESCAPE. 🙂 🙂

      Fun future fun for all.

      Please stick around until a couple of months the El Nino subsides, Marty…

      … we all what you laugh at you some more.😉

  14. Martin Smith says:

    Andy, you are missing the point in such a grand way. The downward trend in Arctic sea ice isn’t unprecedented because of its magnitude and speed. It is unprecedented because WE ARE CAUSING IT.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Avoid the questions Marty.. run, run , run

      The decline is almost exactly in line with the AMO.

      The REAL DATA SHOWS that.

      ANSWER THE 3 POINTS .. CRETIN !!!

    • AndyG55 says:

      “WE ARE CAUSING IT’

      BULLSHIT !!

    • AndyG55 says:

      Bloody hilarious watching little Marty trying to avoid answering those 3 points.

      and making an ABBSOLUTE FOOL of himself.

      Keep going Marty..

      Everyone is watching 😉

    • Martin Smith says:

      Andy, I have shown why your questions are of little interest, so you can choose any answer you want to believe. Here is the point again:

      The downward trend in Arctic sea ice isn’t unprecedented because of its magnitude and speed. It is unprecedented because WE ARE CAUSING IT.

      • AndyG55 says:

        Avoid , avoid.. run. run.

        bloody HILARIOUS. 🙂

      • AndyG55 says:

        “WE ARE CAUSING IT.”

        Yep, just like we cause the massive decrease about 10,000 years ago as we climbed out of the last major ice age.

        You seriously are making a MORONIC FOOL of yourself , Marty

        Are you really THAT DUMB that you cannot see that ????????

        You have THREE points to counter.

        Time to start.. child-mind. or keep running.😉

        • Ted says:

          Andy-

          I spent a week trying to sort through his pathetic attempts to answer questions. Consider yourself lucky he’s running. There’s simply no way to debate a man who doesn’t understand his own position.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Ted,
          And then they wonder why we resort to sarcasm and ridicule out of sheer frustration.

    • gator69 says:

      WE ARE CAUSING IT

      BULLSHIT!

      Marty lies again, and again, and again, and again…

      1- List all climate forcings, order them from most to least effectual, and then quantify them all.

      2- Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of recent, or any, global climate changes.

      There is nothing unusual or unprecedented about our climate, or how we got here. For 4,500,000,000 years climates have always changed, naturally. This means there has been a set precedent, and the burden of proof falls on natural climate change deniers like yourself.

      How many times must I rub your nose in your own excrement before you stop lying child?

      • cfgjd says:

        How come climate skeptics cannot do science? Oh sorry, there was this ONE poster in AGU2015, ROTFL😀

        • AndyG55 says:

          YAWN

          yet another empty ,empty post from cfool.

        • gator69 says:

          How come climate alarmists cannot do science? There is not ONE paper that refutes NV, by far the most likely cause of climate change. ROTFL😀

          1- List all climate forcings, order them from most to least effectual, and then quantify them all.

          2- Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of recent, or any, global climate changes.

          There is nothing unusual or unprecedented about our climate, or how we got here. For 4,500,000,000 years climates have always changed, naturally. This means there has been a set precedent, and the burden of proof falls on natural climate change deniers like yourself.

          Remember this from waaaay back?

          cfgjd says:
          December 9, 2015 at 3:27 pm
          Submit to a Journal or it does not exist…simple rule.

          So refutation of natural variability “does not exist”!😆

          Eat dirt dummy!

    • Gail Combs says:

      Marty says: “….The downward trend in Arctic sea ice isn’t unprecedented because of its magnitude and speed. It is unprecedented because WE ARE CAUSING IT.”

      >>>>>>>>>>

      Is he talking about all those ice breakers breaking up the ice packs so they are more likely to be flushed out into the warm Atlantic where the ice melts?

    • AndyG55 says:

      Perhaps Marty could post a repost on ed’s site….

      …… and get his arse handed to him YET AGAIN.

      • Martin Smith says:

        Let’s see what happens, shall we?

        • AndyG55 says:

          Watching.. with much popcorn. 😉

        • Martin Smith says:

          Apparently he censored my post. He replied to me by email, but he tried to support his fallacious argument by claiming the main greenhouse gas is water vapour. He seems unaware that the water vapour that is in the air is there because the CO2 warmed the air enough to hold the water vapour in the first place.

          I still have my head, Andy, and Ed’s “great article” was indeed nonsense.

        • AndyG55 says:

          roflmao..

          The only nonsense around here is YOUR posts.

          Come on .. stop running..

          Its truly PATHETIC..

        • AndyG55 says:

          “He seems unaware that the water vapour that is in the air is there because the CO2 warmed the air enough to hold the water vapour in the first place.’

          ROFLMAO

          That is probably the most MORONIC thing even you have ever come up with.

          True fantasy !!!

        • AndyG55 says:

          What little Marty is saying is that CO2 cause evaporation

          Can it get any funnier !! 🙂

          Please Marty.. too much hilarity for one day..

          Go back to your SkS sandpit !!

        • xyzzy11 says:

          Martin says: “He seems unaware that the water vapour that is in the air is there because the CO2 warmed the air enough to hold the water vapour in the first place.”

          This will probably come as news to just about EVERY scientist!

          You are joking, aren’t you? Please tell us that you’re not that stupid.

          The MAIN source of energy needed to evaporate water comes from the SUN. The amount of heat able to be generated by carbon dioxide’s LWIR is minuscule compared to the sun.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Yep, xyzzy11 That is what he said..

          Quite hilariously idiotic , hey . 🙂

          What moronic inanity will he come up with next, we wonder.

          Guess we better keep poking him and see.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Marty says:

          “….he tried to support his fallacious argument by claiming the main greenhouse gas is water vapour.”
          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
          OH MY GOODNESS!

          That is the funniest statement from a warmist I have seen yet!

          Now I have to clean my keyboard and screen again. What do they teach these kids now a days. I can barely see I am laughing so hard. Best run back to SS to get that straightened out Marty. You got the Dogma wrong.

        • AndyG55 says:

          I hope SG see that post.. SG where are you !!!

          It must come in as one of the DUMBEST, MOST IGNORANT posts every made on any forum, anywhere.

          Nearly deserves a thread all on its own, so everyone can see it. 🙂

        • AndyG55 says:

          “I still have my head,”

          You mentioned “black holes” the other day. !!

        • Gail Combs says:

          “I still have my head”

        • wizzum says:

          Each time I think you have reached the height of your ignorance you amaze me again Zachary/Marty/ Winston.

          I really thought you not knowing how the arctic was defined was pretty stupid but this takes the cake.
          “Apparently he censored my post. He replied to me by email, but he tried to support his fallacious argument by claiming the main greenhouse gas is water vapour. He seems unaware that the water vapour that is in the air is there because the CO2 warmed the air enough to hold the water vapour in the first place.”

          Bill Nye would disown you .

    • Martin Smith says:

      His conclusion is wrong, Andy: “When the postulated warming in the coming century as promoted by the IPCC and other Global Warming alarmists is collated against the progress of actual Holocene temperatures, the absolute implausibility of the Man-made Global Warming hypothesis by adding comparatively marginal amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere becomes obvious.”

      That’s false. The alleged warming of the early Holocene says nothing about the current warming.

      • AndyG55 says:

        No.. YOU are wrong..

        You cannot counter his points..

        and your certainly can’t counter my points.

        Keep running..

        keep avoiding.

        • Martin Smith says:

          I posted a reply, Andy. It didn’t appear yet. I suppose he is moderating the replies. I countered his “point” which does not follow from his argument.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Still running, still hiding PATHETIC

          You have three things to answer

          PUT UP or SHUT UP

        • AndyG55 says:

          He’s probably laughing too much from whatever idiotic reply you posted.

      • AndyG55 says:

        “The alleged warming of the early Holocene says nothing about the current warming.”

        BULLSHIT, of course it does.

        It shows we actually at the COLDER end of the Holocene

        ….. STOP AVOIDING AND RUNNING

        It really is really PATHETIC of you.

        Even a worm could do better.

      • BruceC says:

        Marty, why is the current Holocene (the modern warm period) colder than the past 4 interglacials even though it has the highest CO2 levels?

      • AndyG55 says:

        ‘When the postulated warming in the coming century as promoted …. blah blah…”

        Yep we have seen that postulated warming put against reality.

        Turns out its postulated NONSENSE and so INACCURATE that that if there was a whole barn there.. they wold STILL miss it !!!

      • Gail Combs says:

        For those who might be confused by Marty’s blatherings:

        1. The atmosphere contains 720 billion tons of CO2 and humans contribute only 6 GT additional load on this balance or about 0.8%. , Termites alone emit ten times more carbon dioxide then us humans.

        2. The effect of CO2 as it increases is logarithmic more and more CO2 has less and less effect. Even the IPCC shows this.

        3. The temperature increase as CO2 increases falls off drastically.

        4. The entire CO2 forcing is 32 to 44 W m–2 [cf., Reid, 1997]. and all but 5 to 6 W m–2 of that forcing occurs in the first 200 ppm CO2! 10W m–2 will raise the temperature 1°C or less.

        5. What about the Milancovitch cycle that Marty dismisses as irrelevant? How does that 5 to 6 W m–2 of CO2 forcing from 200 ppm to 400 ppm compare to the loss of solar energy during the Holocene interglacial?

        We can go to NOAA and Berger’s 60N Solar Insolation calculations from
        http://www1.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/climate_forcing/orbital_variations/berger_insolation/insol91.jun

        Holocene peak insolation: 523 Wm-2
        ……………………………………………..decreased = 47 Wm-2
        NOW (modern Warm Period) 476 Wm-2
        …………………………………………….. decreased = 12 Wm-2
        Depth of the last ice age – around 464 Wm−2

        11,000 years ago…………… 523.16 Wm-2 peak insolation
        Wisconsin Ice age- Holocene transition
        12,000 years ago…………… 522.50 Wm-2

        It takes about 5 Watts per square meter to raise the worlds temperature from 15°C to 16°C.

        Or we can also look at this paper.
        Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic

        Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ~11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3°C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present.”

        So even if you are talking 9% of Trenbreth’s “incoming solar radiation… absolute forcing,… around 340 W m–2 at the top of the atmosphere” the reduction in solar radiation since the Holocene Climate Optimum is 30.6 W m–2. Or 10W m–2 = 1°C or less.

    • Gail Combs says:

      800,000 years

      250,000 years with Milankovitch cycle solar insolation at 65ºN.
      Note thesolar insolation for the present.

      If Mankind is managing to keep the earth warm, all I can say is GO FOR IT! Our interference may be all that is preventing glaciation or at least a very nasty cold and violent climate that makes the Little Ice Age look like a vacation in Hawaii.

  15. AndyG55 says:

    Marty, do you realise that ANYONE that reads the forum can see you AVOIDING my three points.

    EVERYONE can see you running, ducking, weaving like a little worm.

    This is what the below average alarmista troll does when cornered…

    And believe me, below average means ……. incredibly DUMB.

    Far better you run and hide , Marty, before you do even more damage to the alarmist cause.

    • Martin Smith says:

      Andy, I do understand that everyone who reads your exchanges with me can easily see which of us is right and which is wrong. I’m quite happy with that.

      • gator69 says:

        Marty lies again, and again, and again, and again…

        WE ARE CAUSING IT

        BULLSHIT!

        1- List all climate forcings, order them from most to least effectual, and then quantify them all.

        2- Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of recent, or any, global climate changes.

        There is nothing unusual or unprecedented about our climate, or how we got here. For 4,500,000,000 years climates have always changed, naturally. This means there has been a set precedent, and the burden of proof falls on natural climate change deniers like yourself.

        How many times must I rub your nose in your own excrement before you stop lying child?

      • AndyG55 says:

        Yes, EVERYONE can see who is avoiding answering my three points.

        PUT UP or SHUT UP.

      • Martin Smith says:

        Here you go, andy:

        “1. PROVE that the data is incorrect”
        “2. Arctic sea ice is pretty much where it should be for the phase of the AMO”
        “3. Arctic sea is very much higher than the first 3/4 of the Holocene”

        A1. The data are correct. The graph is incorrect because it leaves out great swaths of the sea.

        A2 & A3. My explanation has addressed this. It doesn’t matter whether your A2 and A3 are true or false. What makes the downward trend in Arctic sea ice unprecedented, and what makes the rate of the decrease unprecedented, is the fact that WE ARE THE CAUSE.

        • gator69 says:

          Marty lies again, and again, and again, and again, and again

          WE ARE CAUSING IT

          BULLSHIT!

          1- List all climate forcings, order them from most to least effectual, and then quantify them all.

          2- Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of recent, or any, global climate changes.

          There is nothing unusual or unprecedented about our climate, or how we got here. For 4,500,000,000 years climates have always changed, naturally. This means there has been a set precedent, and the burden of proof falls on natural climate change deniers like yourself.

          How many times must I rub your nose in your own excrement before you stop lying child?

        • AndyG55 says:

          A1. The data are correct.. Thank you.. so there is NOTHING wrong with the graph.

          It is the same graph SG has been using from the start.. and you have just confirmed the data is correct.. GAME OVER.

          ————————————————————————————-

          You explanation for parts 2,3 has totally AVOIDED the question.

          You are running squirming and hiding like a little worm.

          You KNOW they are true, and are trying to avoid saying so.

          The downward trend of Arctic sea ice is totally in line with the upward trend of the AMO.. or are you going to RUN and HIDE form that truth as well.

          squirmiy little worm.

        • Martin Smith says:

          I have answered all your questions, Andy.

        • AndyG55 says:

          The rate of Arctic decline is NOT unprecedented .. unless you only take the ONE period we have actual data for.

          You are LYING .. yet again

          You have NO PROOF for ANYTHING you say.. and you know it.

        • AndyG55 says:

          You have answered Q1. correctly

          You have totally avoided Q2 and Q3.

          EVERYONE can see that.. all those people with even part scepticism can see you AVOIDING.. and they can see that you are afraid to answer.

          That is what you always do..

          you avoid giving truthful answer when you KNOW they destroy your brain-washed idiocy.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Thanks for avoiding and squirming.. you are so helping the realist side of the AGW farce so, so much.

          A traitor to your cause.. because of your base-level incompetence.

        • AndyG55 says:

          And for those who haven’t been watching..

          Here is a graph of the Arctic sea ice flipped and aligned with the AMO.

          And here is graph of Reykjavik temperatures vs the AMO

          And here is a graph of the AMO vs Arctic sea ice.

          The blue dot is just outside the 1sd (pink region) of the 1980-2001 reference period (blue region) And the Arctic sea ice is just below 1sd from the mean of that period.. EXACTLY where it should be

          Now, little worm

          counter Q2 and Q 3 if you dare.

          PUT UP or SHUT UP

        • You can’t argue with Demon-crats. They don’t care about the truth they only care about politics. Look at the BS explanations they give for Obama’s fake birth certificate.

        • AndyG55 says:

          “What makes the downward trend in Arctic sea ice unprecedented, and what makes the rate of the decrease unprecedented, is the fact that WE ARE THE CAUSE.’

          UTTER and COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

          1.. It is NOT unprecedented,

          2.. We are NOT causing it.

          You have absolutely NO PROOF of either statement

          You LIE, and LIE and LIE again… and its DISGUSTING.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Oh and btw, Iceland Met has reported that 2105 was the COLDEST year this century in Iceland..

        • Gail Combs says:

  16. eliza says:

    My guess is that an immense amount of pressure has been put on DMI to get rid of this graph
    http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/old_icecover.uk.php

    • Martin Smith says:

      Where would the pressure come from? Given that they explained why they are switching to the standard parameters, why do you think they are being pressured?

      • Gail Combs says:

        Are you really really that stupid that you can’t figure that out?

        • cfgjd says:

          Perhaps it’s a LIBRUL GUBERNBENT CONSPIRACY, huh? Danes are Northern-European so they are a LOT more SOCIALIST than US Democrats that are actually very right-wing!

        • Gail Combs says:

          Yes, I guess you really are that stupid. Thanks for proving it.
          For those who might not have figured it out: FOLLOW THE MONEY!

          What is Denmark’s national debt? 44.5% of GDP (2013) In 2014, the national debt of Denmark amounted to approximately 45.17% of the GDP.

          WHAT IS IN IT FOR THE BANKS?

          World Bank Carbon Finance Report for 2007
          The carbon economy is the fastest growing industry globally with US$84 billion of carbon trading conducted in 2007, doubling to $116 billion in 2008, and expected to reach over $200 billion by 2012 and over $2,000 billion by 2020

          Copenhagen climate summit in disarray after ‘Danish text’ leak: Developing countries react furiously to leaked draft agreement…

          …The draft hands effective control of climate change finance to the World Bank; would abandon the Kyoto protocol – the only legally binding treaty that the world has on emissions reductions; and would make any money to help poor countries adapt to climate change dependent on them taking a range of actions.

          The document was described last night by one senior diplomat as “a very dangerous document for developing countries. It is a fundamental reworking of the UN balance of obligations. It is to be superimposed without discussion on the talks”….

        • Gail Combs says:

          cfgjd says: “Perhaps it’s a LIBRUL GUBERNBENT CONSPIRACY, huh?”
          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
          Well Common Fool gjd
          As a member of Common Future Paris 2015 org, you would certainly know ALL about applying pressure now wouldn’t you?

    • Gail Combs says:

      I was just thinking the same thing. Why else would they go from a graph with less error to a graph with more error?

  17. Martin Smith says:

    ASIDE: Steven, why do you allow jackals to mess up your board? You have threatened to block me, apparently because of my views, but you allow unlimited ad hominem attacks. You have cautioned me about posting off-topic on occasion, but there are others here (the obvious ones), who post off-topic quite frequently without any cautioning from you whatsoever.

    Back to the point:

    For months, you have been telling us that the Arctic sea ice was increasing at a record pace. I’m sure you said that here more than a few times. Apparently it started from a very low value because it still hasn’t gotten out of the hole yet:
    http://climatecrocks.com/2016/01/06/sea-ice-starts-2016-in-the-hole/

    Who are accusing of fraud on this? Do you have any evidence of fraud, or will you continue to rest on your own private graph?

    BTW, it has always been expected that snowfall in the mountains will increase as warming increases. At least for some time. Do I really have to explain to your readers why that increase must happen, or will you man up and do it yourself?

    • cfgjd says:

      I have to pity the people who use this blog as a source of information about the planet Earth.

    • AndyG55 says:

      “Steven, why do you allow jackals to mess up your board?”

      We all agree its just for the hilarity of seeing your post moronic comments.

      Oh.. I thought you said JACKASSES. Fits you to a tee.!

    • AndyG55 says:

      ” but you allow unlimited ad hominem attacks.’

      Oh no.. Marty’s having another crying tantrum !!!

    • AndyG55 says:

      Do you need a nappy change yet, Marty ? Is that your problem.

      How DO you exist in society !!!!!!!

      You are STILL RUNNING and SQUIRMING from Gator’s questions and from my Q2 and Q3

      Remember.. you did FINALLY answer that the data in the DMI graph that SG uses is CORRECT……
      Well DONE. You don’t like that data.. but that’s tough luck.🙂

      baby steps though… baby step.

    • Gail Combs says:

      Tell me Marty, how much of the sea ice is in the ocean and how much is in the air?

    • Gail Combs says:

      Because no matter how many facts we throw at you Marty, you duck and twist and turn. You refuse to understand even the most elementary points of science even the points YOUR SIDE AGREES WITH!

      All you do Marty is

      but you keep coming back to post absurdities and ACCUSING Steven of posting the wrong graph, so we are left with pointing that out.

      So AGAIN!
      Tell me Marty, how much of the sea ice is in the ocean and how much is in the air?

      Or don’t you even know that very very basic fact?

  18. cfgjd says:

    Trend is Arctic Sea Ice volume is down:

    • gator69 says:

      There is currently more ice in the Arctic than the average of the past 9000 years. Why do you frauds always pick cold periods to start your graphs?

      1- List all climate forcings, order them from most to least effectual, and then quantify them all.

      2- Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of recent, or any, global climate changes.

      There is nothing unusual or unprecedented about our climate, or how we got here. For 4,500,000,000 years climates have always changed, naturally. This means there has been a set precedent, and the burden of proof falls on natural climate change deniers like yourself.

      Remember this from waaaay back?

      cfgjd says:
      December 9, 2015 at 3:27 pm
      Submit to a Journal or it does not exist…simple rule.

      So refutation of natural variability “does not exist”!😆

      • cfgjd says:

        After decades of HARD WORK resulting in posters in major symposiums, climate skeptics have not provided a good alternative explanation of why the planet is warming up now. The emperor has no clothes.

        • gator69 says:

          How is it that trillions of dollars and every alarmist scientist has failed utterly to refute the most obvious cause of climate change?

          Paper please!😆

        • sunsettommy says:

          Little man,the Arctic ice cover is above average for the Holocene,which for periods of time has little to NO ice in the summertime.

        • wizzum says:

          How is it that after decades of hard work and millions of dollars spent, Alarmists cant make a climate model work worth spit.

        • philjourdan says:

          If the day is not cloudy, go outside and look up.

    • wizzum says:

      That chart is a model. It is not a chart of real data

    • Gail Combs says:

      Now the flipped Arctic Sea Ice chart, starting at the BOTTOM of the CYCLE (1979) compared to the AMO.

      Now tell me cfgjd, how much of the sea ice is in the ocean and how much is in the air?

    • Latitude says:

      Trend is Arctic Sea Ice volume is down:
      from an unusually high 1980

    • AndyG55 says:

      Again the moronic propaganda trick of hiding the rise since the AMO turned.

      You are a SLIMY, DELIBERATE LIAR, cFool

      PIOMAS shows Arctic sea ice volume increasing in line with the turning point of the AMO.

      Heck you can even see it in the top graph of yours.

      But let’s look at the whole data, instead of choosing a couple of months where it isn’t as blatantly obvious.

      • AndyG55 says:

        It was pretty hard to get it to show up, and the alignment isn’t absolutely perfect…

        but here is the flipped PIOMAS data date aligned with the AMO.

        Make up your own minds if the Arctic is strongly affected by the AMO or not.

    • BruceC says:

      Way up thread, AndyG55 said there was evidence of less sea-ice in the Artic during the 1940’s. One of those ‘pieces’ of evidence now resides at the Vancouver Maritime Museum, it is the RCMPV St. Roch.

      In 1940-42 she became the first vessel to navigate the NWP from west to east (taking 28-months),
      .
      .
      .
      .
      …… but wait! There’s more!
      .
      .
      .
      .
      In 1944, she made the return journey, using the more northerly route …
      .
      .
      .
      .
      in just 86 days! Making it the first vessel to navigate the NWP in just one season and smashing any previous NWP records.

      • AndyG55 says:

        I wonder how many boats that size have made the voyage in the last couple of years, without icebreaker escort, of course.

  19. cfgjd says:

    It is not possible, even in theory, to rule out unknown causes, fairies, Jesus etc. as the reason for the recent planetary warming. Therefore we need to look at the evidence – what evidence is there that the recent warming is caused by internal variability in the climate system?

    • gator69 says:

      Ergo it is impossible to blame man for a perfectly natural act.

      Eat dirt dummy.😆

      • Gail Combs says:

        If you can’t even NAME the various factors effecting climate, you can not rule them out and THEREFORE YOU CAN’T BLAME MANKIND!

        That says the dinkle shit amount of GoreBull Warbling isn’t even on the radar as far as climate change goes.
        The error in temp data cannot exceed 0.5°C or else all these global temp indexes are statistically equal (i.e., no warming).

        So what is the error in just the READING from the BEST temperature data set. That is the US temperature data.

        Over 70% of the stations have an error greater than 2 degree C!

        And that doesn’t even get into the bogus sampling techniques or the massive amount of missing data that is made up.

        • cfgjd says:

          Clearly the planet is warming up as the ice sheets in Greenland are West Antarctica are getting smaller, as are almost all mountain glaciers all over the world including the Antarctic Peninsula. Arctic Sea Ice volume is on a strong downward trend while oceans are warming up and rising. And oh yes, the fake hiatus in surface temps is probably over too.

        • gator69 says:

          Hey dumbass! NEWSFLASH! Ice melts!

          We have just come out of the coldest period of the Holocene, so of course ice is melting. Duh.

          And the fake hiatus was ended by fake temperatures. The real hiatus continues.

          Still waiting on that paper cfool.

        • Gail Combs says:

          CFool says “Clearly the planet is warming up as the ice sheets in Greenland are West Antarctica are getting smaller”
          >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
          MORE PROPAGANDA!
          February 20, 2013 New paper finds Antarctica has been gaining surface ice mass over past 150 years

          University of Texas News: Researchers Find Major West Antarctic Glacier Melting from Geothermal Sources

          NASA In late September 2013, the ice surrounding Antarctica reached its annual winter maximum and set a new record.

          (This is what matters. A change in albedo.)

          Robot Sub Finds Surprisingly Thick Antarctic Sea Ice

          ………………………

          Study finds Arctic seabed afire with lava-spewing volcanoes: The Arctic seabed is as explosive geologically as it is politically judging by the “fountains” of gas and molten lava that have been blasting out of underwater volcanoes near the North Pole.

          Sea Level Changes Past Records and Future Expectations

          For the last 40-50 years strong observational facts indicate virtually stable sea level conditions. The Earth’s rate of rotation records an [average] acceleration from 1972 to 2012, contradicting all claims of a rapid global sea level rise, and instead suggests stable, to slightly falling, sea levels.

          Ice free Arctic Ocean, an Early Holocene analogue

          Abstract
          Extensive systems of wave generated beach ridges along the North Greenland coasts show that these areas once saw seasonally open water. In addition to beach ridges, large amounts of striated boulders in and on the marine sediments from the same period also indicate that the ocean was open enough for ice bergs to drift along the shore and drop their loads. Presently the North Greenland coastline is permanently beleaguered by pack ice, and ice bergs are very rare and locked up in the sea ice. Predictions of the rapidly decreasing sea ice in the Arctic Ocean generally point to this area as the last to become ice free in summer. We therefore suggest that the occurrence of wave generated shores and abundant ice berg dropped boulders indicate that the Arctic Ocean was nearly free of sea ice in the summer at the time when they were formed. The beach ridges occur as isostatically raised “staircases”, and C14-dated curves for relative sea level change show that they were formed in the Early Holocene. A large set of samples of molluscs from beach ridges and marine sediments were collected in the summer of 2007, and are presently being dated to give a precise dating of the ice free interval. Preliminary results indicate that it fell within the interval from c. 8.5 to c. 6 ka – being progressively shorter from south to north. We therefore conclude that for a period in the Early Holocene, probably for a millenium or more, the Arctic Ocean was free of sea ice at least for shorter periods in the summer….

          A new approach for reconstructing glacier variability based on lake sediments recording input from more than one glacier January 2012

          …. A multi-proxy numerical analysis demonstrates that it is possible to distinguish a glacier component in the ~ 8000-yr-long record, based on distinct changes in grain size, geochemistry, and magnetic composition…. This signal is …independently tested through a mineral magnetic provenance analysis of catchment samples. Minimum glacier input is indicated between 6700–5700 cal yr BP, probably reflecting a situation when most glaciers in the catchment had melted away, whereas the highest glacier activity [growth] is observed around 600 and 200 cal yr BP. During the local Neoglacial interval (~ 4200 cal yr BP until present), five individual periods of significantly reduced glacier extent are identified at ~ 3400, 3000–2700, 2100–2000, 1700–1500, and ~ 900 cal yr BP….
          (wwwDOT)sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033589411001256

          The highest glacier growth started 600 years ago prior to that most glaciers had melted away.

          Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic

          …. Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ~11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3°C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present. Early Holocene summer sea ice limits were substantially smaller than their 20th century average, and the flow of Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean was substantially greater. As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers re-established or advanced, sea ice expanded

          Mid to late Holocene sea-level reconstruction of Southeast Vietnam using beachrock and beach-ridge deposits

          ….backshore deposits along the tectonically stable south-eastern Vietnamese coast document Holocene sea level changes…..reconstructed for the last 8000 years….The rates of sea-level rise decreased sharply after the rapid early Holocene rise and stabilized at a rate of 4.5 mm/year between 8.0 and 6.9 ka. Southeast Vietnam beachrocks reveal that the mid-Holocene sea-level highstand slightly above + 1.4 m was reached between 6.7 and 5.0 ka, with a peak value close to + 1.5 m around 6.0 ka….

          Translation the sea level was up to 1.5 meters higher than today in a tectonically stable area ~5000 years ago to 2000 years ago. Tectonically stable area refers to areas devoid of deformation such as all processes which modify the external form of the crust. For example unidirectional vertical movements, plate tectonics and also the rise and fall of the solid earth surface, especially in coastal areas, caused by external factors such as climate change (gio-isotasy, hydro-isotasy)

        • AndyG55 says:

          A little video for you cFOOL.

          Do try to listen to ALL of it especially right toward the end.

      • cfgjd says:

        Wrong Gator. Skeptics nor anybody else have not been able to provide an alternative explanation for the warming. What are the cycles that caused the warming? Letäs look at the evidence…

        • philjourdan says:

          Null Hypothesis. Ever heard of it?

        • Latitude says:

          cfgjd says:
          January 7, 2016 at 3:46 pm
          Wrong Gator. Skeptics nor anybody else have not been able to provide an alternative explanation for the warming.
          =====
          cf, if you were an honest broker…you would admit that no one has been able to provide an explanation for the warming…one way or the other
          The theory you hold to has only worked in bits and pieces…and not the same pieces and not at the same time

        • gator69 says:

          Bingo! Another zealot outs himself by ignoring the obvious. There are really two main reasons why I ask alarmists to list all forcings, and disprove NV.

          1- It is supposed to make them think.

          cfool failed number one.

          2- It is a means of separating the honest from the liars.

          cfool has shown himself to be a liar.

          Fence sitters can plainly see the dishonesty and obvious zealotry of the alarmists, and they become skeptics.

        • OrganicFool says:

          You’re right gator.

          This blog and the many helpful links and responses to the AGW scam helped me see through the bull.

          I don’t have the level of expertise as many of the people that post here and it has helped me to learn a great deal, for which I thank you all, even the devil’s advocates. You helped save at least one “fence sitter”.

          Now I enjoy my furnace without guilt in winter. It’s great! I even invested in some fossil fuel companies since it’s been driven down so far by the market. Coal is only increasing in demand worldwide.

        • gator69 says:

          Climates change naturally. Everything we are seeing is perfectly natural, and you cannot prove otherwise.

          Only an idiot would panic when the Sun rises on time.

        • AndyG55 says:

          “What are the cycles that caused the warming?”

          Seriously.. don’t even know any of those?

          wow.. no wonder you come across so darn ignorant.

          You have serious research and learning to do, little child-mind.

        • lectrikdog says:

          “The argument favoring a geological origin to Greenland glacier ice melting is heating up, specifically geothermally.”
          http://www.plateclimatology.com/greenland-ice-melt-geothermal-not-man-made/

        • Gail Combs says:

          Organic,

          That is why the Alarmists are trying to muzzle any and all debate. They KNOW they would lose an honest debate.

        • OrganicFool says:

          Gail, cuz we know of course that the “science is settled.”

          Debate between Marc Morano and Bill Nye the Science Guy, like the one I saw on John Stossel’s show, was revealing.

          Nye couldn’t really get anywhere with the standard talking points and kept retreating back to the argument “the world once had 1 billion people and now it has 7 billion”. Morano asked Nye who he was to tell people in developing countries how to live while he sits in his ivory tower. Awesome! It reveals the real heart of the AGW mindset I think.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Interesting link lecdog…. that’ll upset a few of the more brain-washed trolls. 🙂

      • Gail Combs says:

        What is really really funny Gator is CFool is now saying

        Skeptics nor anybody else have not been able to provide an alternative explanation for the warming. What are the cycles that caused the warming? Letäs look at the evidence…

        And yet I gave him that info DAYS ago.

    • Latitude says:

      – what evidence is there that the recent warming is caused by internal variability in the climate system?
      ===
      Problem is, we don’t know enough to know if it is….or isn’t

  20. Gail Combs says:

    CFool says “Clearly the planet is warming up as the ice sheets in Greenland are West Antarctica are getting smaller”
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    MORE PROPAGANDA!

    February 20, 2013 New paper finds Antarctica has been gaining surface ice mass over past 150 years

    University of Texas News: Researchers Find Major West Antarctic Glacier Melting from Geothermal Sources

    NASA In late September 2013, the ice surrounding Antarctica reached its annual winter maximum and set a new record.

    (This is what matters. A change in albedo.)

    Robot Sub Finds Surprisingly Thick Antarctic Sea Ice

    ………………..

    Study finds Arctic seabed afire with lava-spewing volcanoes: The Arctic seabed is as explosive geologically as it is politically judging by the “fountains” of gas and molten lava that have been blasting out of underwater volcanoes near the North Pole.

    Ice free Arctic Ocean, an Early Holocene analogue

    Abstract
    Extensive systems of wave generated beach ridges along the North Greenland coasts show that these areas once saw seasonally open water. In addition to beach ridges, large amounts of striated boulders in and on the marine sediments from the same period also indicate that the ocean was open enough for ice bergs to drift along the shore and drop their loads. Presently the North Greenland coastline is permanently beleaguered by pack ice, and ice bergs are very rare and locked up in the sea ice. Predictions of the rapidly decreasing sea ice in the Arctic Ocean generally point to this area as the last to become ice free in summer. We therefore suggest that the occurrence of wave generated shores and abundant ice berg dropped boulders indicate that the Arctic Ocean was nearly free of sea ice in the summer at the time when they were formed. The beach ridges occur as isostatically raised “staircases”, and C14-dated curves for relative sea level change show that they were formed in the Early Holocene. A large set of samples of molluscs from beach ridges and marine sediments were collected in the summer of 2007, and are presently being dated to give a precise dating of the ice free interval. Preliminary results indicate that it fell within the interval from c. 8.5 to c. 6 ka – being progressively shorter from south to north. We therefore conclude that for a period in the Early Holocene, probably for a millenium or more, the Arctic Ocean was free of sea ice at least for shorter periods in the summer….

    A new approach for reconstructing glacier variability based on lake sediments recording input from more than one glacier January 2012

    …. A multi-proxy numerical analysis demonstrates that it is possible to distinguish a glacier component in the ~ 8000-yr-long record, based on distinct changes in grain size, geochemistry, and magnetic composition…. This signal is …independently tested through a mineral magnetic provenance analysis of catchment samples. Minimum glacier input is indicated between 6700–5700 cal yr BP, probably reflecting a situation when most glaciers in the catchment had melted away, whereas the highest glacier activity [growth] is observed around 600 and 200 cal yr BP. During the local Neoglacial interval (~ 4200 cal yr BP until present), five individual periods of significantly reduced glacier extent are identified at ~ 3400, 3000–2700, 2100–2000, 1700–1500, and ~ 900 cal yr BP….
    (wwwDOT)sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0033589411001256

    The highest glacier growth started 600 years ago prior to that most glaciers had melted away.

    Temperature and precipitation history of the Arctic

    …. Solar energy reached a summer maximum (9% higher than at present) ~11 ka ago and has been decreasing since then, primarily in response to the precession of the equinoxes. The extra energy elevated early Holocene summer temperatures throughout the Arctic 1-3°C above 20th century averages, enough to completely melt many small glaciers throughout the Arctic, although the Greenland Ice Sheet was only slightly smaller than at present. Early Holocene summer sea ice limits were substantially smaller than their 20th century average, and the flow of Atlantic water into the Arctic Ocean was substantially greater. As summer solar energy decreased in the second half of the Holocene, glaciers re-established or advanced, sea ice expanded

    • Gail Combs says:

      Validation by other methods.
      Sea Level Changes Past Records and Future Expectations

      For the last 40-50 years strong observational facts indicate virtually stable sea level conditions. The Earth’s rate of rotation records an [average] acceleration from 1972 to 2012, contradicting all claims of a rapid global sea level rise, and instead suggests stable, to slightly falling, sea levels.

      Mid to late Holocene sea-level reconstruction of Southeast Vietnam using beachrock and beach-ridge deposits

      ….backshore deposits along the tectonically stable south-eastern Vietnamese coast document Holocene sea level changes…..reconstructed for the last 8000 years….The rates of sea-level rise decreased sharply after the rapid early Holocene rise and stabilized at a rate of 4.5 mm/year between 8.0 and 6.9 ka. Southeast Vietnam beachrocks reveal that the mid-Holocene sea-level highstand slightly above + 1.4 m was reached between 6.7 and 5.0 ka, with a peak value close to + 1.5 m around 6.0 ka….

      Translation the sea level was up to 1.5 meters higher than today in a tectonically stable area ~5000 years ago to 2000 years ago. Tectonically stable area refers to areas devoid of deformation such as all processes which modify the external form of the crust. For example unidirectional vertical movements, plate tectonics and also the rise and fall of the solid earth surface, especially in coastal areas, caused by external factors such as climate change (gio-isotasy, hydro-isotasy)

    • cfgjd says:

      WAIS is losing mass quite rapidly…it can be clearly seen with both GRACE and altimetry. The big ice streams are acting up…

      • Neal S says:

        Eventually you will be like the person in the mental hospital who insists he is Napoleon. I wonder what you will do once it is impossible to credibly deny that any warming that had recently taken place is over and if anything cooling is happening now. Depending on how strong your mind is, you could go crazy as a result.

      • Gonzo says:

        Dude even NASA resident ice guru concludes GRACE is an outlier! Most of the loss is in GIA adjustments. The ICEsat laser satellite shows the Antarctic is gaining mass. Frezzotti et al 2012 also came to the same conclusion.

        • cfgjd says:

          Nope, everyone agrees that WAIS is losing mass rather rapidly as the signal is so strong, the jury is still out on EAIS, even though most scientists estimate that Antarctica as a whole is losing mass.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Gonzo,
          You will notice the usual Alinsky tactic of the trained Propagandist.

          WE have to produce peer-reviewed studies. (Which are then completely ignored) While CFool only has to make stately pronouncements from his pedestal atop the Moral High Ground.

        • Gail Combs says:

          cfgjd,
          Tell me how much of the sea ice is in the ocean and how much is in the air?

        • Gonzo says:

          So cf, by your logic if the US is gaining population overall yet one state is losing population then the whole of the US losing population. Genius!!

        • Gonzo says:

          Yeah it really looks like WAIS is losing ice radiply. NOT

        • Gail Combs says:

          As I said it is losing ice in certain spots due to GEOTHERMAL ACTIVITY.

          You know volcanoes, hotsprings and the like. And that map shows it.

          (Thanks Gonzo, not that the warmist can add 1=1 and get 2.)

        • AndyG55 says:

          If its just the Western Peninsula.. its certainly NOTHING to do to with GLOBAL warming.

          Its so hilarious to see them focus on one small (relatively) area that just happens to be over a strong volcanic region, and try to link it to “global” anything. Dumb is as dumb does. !!!

        • AndyG55 says:

          There’s a place toward the tip of the peninsula where the thermal springs are warm enough for it to be designated a tourist destination.

          And of course the life-sustaining benefits of these warm springs in the Antarctic provides for so strange sites..
          http://news.discovery.com/earth/oceans/antarctic-deep-sea-vent-creatures-010312.htm

      • Gail Combs says:

        cfgjd,
        Tell me how much of the sea ice is in the ocean and how much is in the air?

      • AndyG55 says:

        This graph of southern sea temps explains the melting in the Antarctic..;-)

        • cfgjd says:

          Fantastic Andy, you deserve a medal. I specifically said “at depth” in order to discourage morans equating SST with ocean temperature.

        • gator69 says:

          Yeah Andy, at depth, where thermal vents hide Trenberth’s missing heat.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Hello again, Mr fact free zone.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Ah, those imaginary warm currents. 😉

        • AndyG55 says:

          I can see it creeping on tippy-toes along the ocean floor , making sure nobody can find it.

        • Gail Combs says:

          So CommonFool gjd
          Tell me how much of the sea ice is in the ocean and how much is in the air?

        • AndyG55 says:

          And what really amazing is that it is clever enough to mix itself in with the volcanic thermals …. .as a disguise, obviously !!…

          ….but only under the West Antarctic peninsular, and nowhere else on Antarctica

        • Gail Combs says:

          HEY Common Fool gjd
          READ!
          A 13 year old should know this!

          Cold water, in general, is denser than warm water. Likewise, water with a high salinity is denser than water that contains less salt. Surface ocean currents are primarily driven by winds. Deep ocean currents, on the other hand, are mainly a result of density differences. The thermohaline circulation, often referred to as the ocean’s “conveyor belt”, links major surface and deep water currents in the Atlantic, Indian, Pacific, and Southern Oceans. Multiple mechanisms conspire to increase the density of surface waters at high latitudes. Cold winds blowing over the oceans chill the waters beneath them. These winds also increase evaporation rates, further removing heat from the water. These chilled waters have increased densities, and thus tend to sink. Formation of sea ice also helps to increase the density of water near Earth’s poles. As seawater freezes, salt is forced out of the ice in a process called “brine exclusion”. The ice is essentially not salty. The excluded salt increases the salinity of the cold water immediately below the ice, making it denser still. The salty, cold water near the poles sinks toward the ocean floor.
          http://scied.ucar.edu/ocean-move-thermohaline-circulation

        • lectrikdog says:

          ‘…how much of the sea ice is in the ocean and how much is in the air?’
          LOL levitating sea ice😉 need a pic for that

        • Gonzo says:

          They’re only a handful of areas in the far north of the Peninsula that are above freezing
          in the summer, the rest of the Antarctic is well be low freezing. Current SST anomalies show the straight btwn S America and the tip of WA are well below normal right now.

          earth.nullschool.net/#current/ocean/primary/waves/overlay=sea_surface_temp_anomaly/orthographic=-89.39,-87.18,497

        • lectrikdog says:

          Gail sometimes the salt extrudes to the surface and makes Ice Flowers which contain a lot of salt. http://www.polarmicrobes.org/?p=106

  21. Gail Combs says:

    Morgan Wright says “You can’t argue with Demon-crats. They don’t care about the truth they only care about politics.”

    Those Demons are spooky, especially the Succubus like this one.

    • Gail Combs says:

      cfgjd says: “Find me a glaciologist who agrees that the recent acceleration of big ice streams in WAIS is caused by “geothermal activity”? I don’t think you can, as in situ measurements clearly show that the culprit is warmed ocean water at depth.
      >>>>>>>>>>>

      Are you REALLY REALLY that devoid of reasoning ability that someone with a PhD has to tell you what to think?

      I will lead you by the hand since you obviously can’t think on your own. (Papers referred to are HERE)

      1. Science papers show geothermal activity and volcanoes on both the land and in the sea near Antarctica.

      2. “geothermal activity” MELTS ice. DUHHhhhh!

      3. Ice with a coating of water is slicker that goose shit.

      4. Any glaciers heated from below will therefore slide faster.

      >>>>>>>>>>>
      You are saying the cause is the culprit is warmed ocean water at depth.”
      >>>>>>>>>>>

      Does that pass statement pass the sniff test? NO!
      Again science papers/NASA show.
      1. Record Antarctic sea ice for last couple years.
      2. Sea Ice thicker than thought.
      3. Current sea surface temps show Antarctic Circumpolar current is cooler than average even though it is summer.

      4. Thermohaline circulation

      What is thermohaline circulation?

      Cold water, in general, is denser than warm water. Likewise, water with a high salinity is denser than water that contains less salt. Surface ocean currents are primarily driven by winds. Deep ocean currents, on the other hand, are mainly a result of density differences. The thermohaline circulation, often referred to as the ocean’s “conveyor belt”, links major surface and deep water currents in the Atlantic, Indian, Pacific, and Southern Oceans. Multiple mechanisms conspire to increase the density of surface waters at high latitudes. Cold winds blowing over the oceans chill the waters beneath them. These winds also increase evaporation rates, further removing heat from the water. These chilled waters have increased densities, and thus tend to sink. Formation of sea ice also helps to increase the density of water near Earth’s poles. As seawater freezes, salt is forced out of the ice in a process called “brine exclusion”. The ice is essentially not salty. The excluded salt increases the salinity of the cold water immediately below the ice, making it denser still. The salty, cold water near the poles sinks toward the ocean floor.
      http://scied.ucar.edu/ocean-move-thermohaline-circulation

      Thus GEOTHERMAL is the likely cause no a fairy tale of phantom warm water deep in the ocean.

      • RAH says:

        Gail,
        This is completely OT but is more support for your contention that women suffer more injuries in combat jobs than men:
        http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htinf/articles/20160107.aspx

        Notice this little gem:
        “Speaking of physical standards, this has become a problem for European countries now seeking women for the infantry because it is a known and accepted fact that women suffer more injuries in physically stressful activities. Proponents of women in combat (none of them combat veterans) dismiss these issues as minor and easily fixed but offer no tangible or proven solutions. By European law allowing women in jobs that leads to more injuries than men would suffer is illegal. No one has gone to court over this yet but it is only a matter of time. First you have to wait for enough women to join to get a statistically valid number of injured female infantry.”

        • Gail Combs says:

          Thanks RAH,
          No one disputes the fact that a stallion is stronger than a mare and very very few fillies have won races against colts. The US government recently made a law that you can not have children around stallions, bulls, boars, rams or bucks. Any farmer will tell you an uncut male is stronger and more aggressive. It is for this reason we neuter farm animals. Pound for pound you get more muscle mass to fat in males and skeletal differences allow the identification of make vs female skeletons.

          To put it bluntly the males of most species have evolved with the best fighters getting breeding privileges so you get a differentiation in body type and aggressiveness between males and females. Stupid Progressive laws aren’t going to change things.

          Of course if you want to markedly decrease the population, you toss females as well as males into combat and then start a bunch of wars…..

        • Jason Calley says:

          “Of course if you want to markedly decrease the population, you toss females as well as males into combat and then start a bunch of wars…..”

          Ouch! I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that it makes too much sense to discount the possibility.

        • Gail Combs says:

          Jason,
          I am not sure how true it is but the folklore I was told by my mother was repeated heavy lifting caused internal injures that made childbearing difficult. SEE: link

          As far as wars go, it sure looks like Clinton and Obummer have been busy little bees in setting up the next set of wars for Ike’s military–industrial–congressional complex to profit from.

  22. gte018x says:

    Excluding the rain/snow events, the SW is still in a permanent drought.

  23. cfgjd says:

    Find me a glaciologist who agrees that the recent acceleration of big ice streams in WAIS is caused by “geothermal activity”? I don’t think you can, as in situ measurements clearly show that the culprit is warmed ocean water at depth.

  24. Gonzo says:

    This is how NASA prefaced Zwally’s recent paper.
    [NOTE: The findings reported here conflict with over a decade of other measurements, including previous NASA studies. However, challenges to existing findings are an integral part of the scientific process and can help clarify and advance understanding. Additional scrutiny and follow-up research will be required before this study can be reconciled with the preponderance of evidence supporting the widely accepted model of a shrinking Antarctic ice sheet.]

    Surprising they even let him publish! Notice they say “accepted model”. I guess actual measurements from both Zwally and Frezzoti aren’t good enough. The models are all seeing

    • Gonzo says:

      So you’re saying the same tech that maps ocean floors and the worlds topo can’t measure/map the Antarctic ice sheet. More GENIUS.

    • gator69 says:

      So ice never melted before the 20th century? Is that your point?

    • David A says:

      What percentage of Antarctica is the volcanicly active wais?

    • Gail Combs says:

      That is a slidenet slide
      Ingrid LE RU, International Projects Coordinator

      Ingrid LE RU
      France
      International Projects Coordinator
      CleanTech / Environment
      http://www.commonfuture-paris2015.org
      My career has been mainly focused on supporting countries in their sustainable development path, through a holistic approach. It included environmental projects management – from their identification to their implementation – in the fields of biodiversity conservation, community-based natural resources management, and climate change. It entailed stakeholders’ coordination and capacity building, assistance on financial and technical aspects, advocacy and awareness raising activities. Besides managing projects, I would like to get further involved in advocacy work and awareness raising efforts, and in providing assistance to designing development policies (at international, national, loc.

      A bit of FOLLOW THE MONEY!
      The website image.slidesharecdn.com is expected to be earning an estimated $11,581 USD on a daily basis.

      Sign the statement

      The Our Common Future under Climate Change conference represents an historic opportunity to deliver a clear message to the Paris COP in December. We warmly invite scientific institutions and international research programs to sign this statement.
      If you wish to support it, please send the letter before November 8th to conference@commonfuture-paris2015.org
      http://www.commonfuture-paris2015.org/

      So from an Activist group supported by the French Government and a bunch of corporations.

    • philjourdan says:

      Link. I can type better than that.

    • Latitude says:

      Oct. 30, 2015

      NASA Study: Mass Gains of Antarctic Ice Sheet Greater than Losses

      A new NASA study says that an increase in Antarctic snow accumulation that began 10,000 years ago is currently adding enough ice to the continent to outweigh the increased losses from its thinning glaciers.

      The research challenges the conclusions of other studies, including the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change’s (IPCC) 2013 report, which says that Antarctica is overall losing land ice.

      According to the new analysis of satellite data, the Antarctic ice sheet showed a net gain of 112 billion tons of ice a year from 1992 to 2001. That net gain slowed to 82 billion tons of ice per year between 2003 and 2008.

      http://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/nasa-study-mass-gains-of-antarctic-ice-sheet-greater-than-losses

      • RAH says:

        Lat

        They won’t pay attention to that. A while back I showed them two recent studies the showed Antarctic and even the western ice shelf were gaining ice, including the one you present here. They refused to even acknowledge those studies.

  25. cfgjd says:

    The old DMI-graph is crappier than the newer one, which they clearly state. That is normal, get over it.

    • gator69 says:

      My, my! How desperate are the alarmists?

      The old DMI-graph is crappier than the newer one, which they clearly state.

      Please provide the page that clearly states that the 30% graph is “crappier” than the new “crappy” graph.

  26. RAH says:

    The old DMI graph is not “old” in the sense that kept current. And according to DMI right on the page with that “old” graph it says:

    ” The shown sea ice extent values are therefore recommended be used qualitatively in relation to ice extent values from other years shown in the figure.”

    Comprehend much? Let me spell it out for you! That “old” graph is the one that DMI says should be used for comparison to past years! And that is exactly why and how Steven uses it.

    So you wanna argue with someone about using that graph then you should be arguing with the SOURCE of the graph and not the users, such as Steven, who are just following the recommendation for the graphs use stated by the SOURCE.

    Get it?

    • gator69 says:

      No, he does not, and will not ever get it. Self imposed ignorance is impenetrable.

      • Gail Combs says:

        Gator, it is not ignorance it is AGENDA. That is Agenda 21.

        CommonFuture Fool gjd is trying to shove the debate OFF climate and onto “consolidating the scientific basis for assessing risks and options for action, to defining the form that action has to take in order to engage in a necessary transition to low-carbon and adapted economies and societies. For stakeholders, the question has shifted from reasons for action to the form action has to take.” And we and well over 50% of the population are holding back Progress (towards our own enslavement.)

        Common Fool gjd is selling snake oil for Our Common Future under Climate Change Organization

        -*- Building on the findings of IPCC AR5 (5th assessment report), the scientific conference “Our common future under climate change”, held in Paris in July 2015, presented updated knowledge and addressed key issues concerning climate change in the broader context of global change…

        -*- For science, the question has progressively shifted from consolidating the scientific basis for assessing risks and options for action, to defining the form that action has to take in order to engage in a necessary transition to low-carbon and adapted economies and societies. For stakeholders, the question has shifted from reasons for action to the form action has to take.

        -*- The scientific community, in partnerships with a variety of stakeholders, plays a major role for shaping our future under climate change, by identifying potential sustainable futures and innovations at different spatial and time scales, by designing and assessing relevant and coherent solutions, policies and measures, and therefore increasing the credibility of the Paris agreement.

        -*- The conference was a major opportunity for scientists, stakeholders and the larger public, to take stock of existing knowledge, explore and identify innovative solutions, discuss them, and prepare for an ambitious post 2015 climate governance regime.

        When someone ignores all evidence and refuses to engage in debate you can guarantee they have a hidden agenda.

        Notice that those scenarios were WRITTEN by lead author Ged Davis VP OF SHELL OIL!

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