http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/table_area.php?ui_set=0&ui_sort=1
There has been amazing amounts of noise from the climate science community claiming that the extensive snow cover this year is due to a lack of Arctic ice. But as you can see in the graph above, there is no correlation between Arctic ice extent and snow cover. Some years have more snow, some years have less snow. Arctic ice has nothing to do with it.
http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/images/n_plot.png
Did they specifically say it was due to the lack of Arctic ice extent or just lack of Arctic ice? I genuinely don’t know but the difference between both is very significant.
Funny, I don’t remember anything in Al Gore’s movie about “global warming” causing longer winters that would have record cold and snow…..
You or Steve have failed to answer the question.
@Lazarus: He provides links. Go check it out for yourself. Or would that be too much work?
Actually it is far too much work to check out every tin pot claim on here. Either the scientists who say that ‘extensive snow cover this year is due to a lack of Arctic ice’ are talking about lack of extent as Steve is suggesting or actual lack of ice.
If you know which tell me.
I would but apparently you can’t read.
Lazarus
Surface ice is the answer; so extent is what you are looking for, not depth, unless you are the straw man. http://www.news24.com/SciTech/News/Global-warming-causing-freezing-20101221
Thanks Thom,
At last someone with a link.
Now I’d be interested in why none of the pseudo-skeptics here have noticed that Steve’s graphs compare a single week, (week 49 so I assume it is the first week in December), with the whole month of November? The former doesn’t even have a trend line.
Also why is there no link to what the climate science community is claiming? I can only think it must be the research talked about in this post;
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/even-trenberth-doesnt-buy-it/
But if Kevin Trenberth is a skeptic just how representative of the climate science community can it be? Or is there other research that Steve failed to link too?
They are generally talking about extent because it is the difference between open sea water and ice that they claim is causing the colder weather. I don’t know how thicker ice would matter.
What are you talking about?
Lazarus, read the titles of the 2 graphs. See the words EXTENT?
there’s your answer.
I have read the titles. I still haven’t had an answer. These graphs were posted by Steve, are they the ones the scientists are using or just Steve. I don’t actually know but no direct answer from Steve or you makes me very skeptical.
The answers to your questions are in the articles and three people have helped you out. Are you intentionally being obtuse, or?
Well glacierman if you actually know then why not just tell me?
Either the scientists who say that ‘extensive snow cover this year is due to a lack of Arctic ice’ are talking about lack of extent as Steve is suggesting or actual lack of ice. Any ideas? The lack of a direct response from anyone, while they seem to think I am at fault for being skeptical smells of a straw man to me.
How could buried ice possibly effect the weather?
Steven:
If it is LAZ then buried ice affects the albedo in that region during winter months! 😉
Buried ice? Do you mean the depth of ice, ie how much ice is under the top millimetre of the white stuff?
Are you claiming that it can’t or that you are just ignorant of how it does?
And can you just clarify my question, are you saying that the ‘climate science community’ your refer to are talking solely about extent of ice and snow or not?
Just think, if it gets hot enough from “global warming” Indians in the Amazon will be living in igloos.
I guess this is another case of warm(cold) causing all the snow.
Berlin sees most snow in December since 1900s
BERLIN, Dec. 28 (Xinhua) — German capital Berlin has experienced more snow this month than any other December of past 110 years, as more bitter cold is expected in the country’s east, the German Weather Service (DWD) said Tuesday.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-12/29/c_13668400.htm
They insult our intelligence when we don’t believe them that warming causes snow and cold, but they were just saying something different. I can’t keep up with the latest theories.
They can not keep up with their latest theories either. That is why they keep changing the end results. Thirty Thousand years ago the Globe was experiencing Catastrophic Global Warming that wiped out many species and reduced humanity to a small number in temperate regions and it is all because of our using Fossil Fuels today. It was the Global Warming that caused the Glacial Maximum! You See!
Since it’s supposedly been gradually getting warmer, Arctic ice has gradually become less…
You would think, according to them, that snow would have gradually increased.
Must have hit a tipping point this year……………………………..LOL
Nope, we hit it three decades ago:
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/history-of-arctic-sea-ice-part-2/#comment-46720
Isn’t it nice how completely off the wall comments like that are allowed when it is on the website owner’s side?
-Scott
I’m heading up for a ride along Horsetooth Resrvoir before the snow and cold hits tomorrow
If the “Tipping Point” was hit 3 decades ago then it is time for the next tipping point!
Why is it that every time the snow cover figures are plotted a trend line is never drawn?
Saying “Some years have more snow, some years have less snow. Arctic ice has nothing to do with it.” is not very useful because the ice does the same and frankly to my eye it looks like since 1980 the snow has been increasing.
Wouldn’t it be easier to see if there is a correlation with a trend line and also only use snow cover data from 1980, not 1968, to match the ice data?
Is the recent drop in global temps on UAH Ch 4 real?. It shows .8 degrees less than last year. http://discover.itsc.uah.edu/amsutemps/execute.csh?amsutemps
Its worst than we thought.
I’m starting to suspect that UAH has calibration problems.
UAH or if you will the MSU is measuring the troposphere at a distance above the ground and not surface temperature. With a long enough history we will have a better understanding of global temperatures after the “Bugs” are worked out of the System. You need to keep in mind that there have been different measuring devises and the results have been patched together to arrive at the current record. Now it is little better than anecdotal evidence that something is going on as the record is not long enough. Maybe in a couple of hundred years!
Maybe they can find a connection between snowcover and the number of times Al Gore picks his nose!
Correlation is not causation. Its one of the first things a person learns in beginners statistics. “Move along folks. Nothing to see here.” Charles Manson eats carrots therefore eating carrots causes a person to become a homicidal maniac. The presence or absence of snow or ice are not dependent on each other.