The Arctic Is Ice Free – How Can Sea Ice Be Declining?

Experts say the Arctic is ice-free. They also say the non-existent ice is melting rapidly.

North Pole already ice-free in 2000

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Ages-Old Icecap at North Pole Is Now Liquid, Scientists Find – NYTimes.com

Arctic ice-free by 2012.

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The Daily Reporter – Google News Archive Search

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Star-News

Arctic ice-free by 2013

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BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Arctic summers ice-free ‘by 2013’

Arctic ice-free by 2014.

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Gore: Polar ice cap may disappear by summer 2014

Arctic ice-free by 2015.

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What climate scientists talk about now – FT.com

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The End of the Arctic? Ocean Could be Ice Free by 2015 – The Daily Beast

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The Argus-Press – Google News Archive Search

Scientists have been saying this same story for generations.

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04 Apr 1923 – THE NORTH POLE. – Trove

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The Changing Face of the Arctic – The Changing Face of the Arctic – View Article – NYTimes.com

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TimesMachine: Expert Says Arctic Ocean Will Soon Be an Open Sea; Catastrophic Shifts in Climate Feared if Change Occurs Other Specialists See No Thinning of Polar Ice Cap – NYTimes.com

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The Argus-Press – Google News Archive Search

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19 Jun 1972, Page 41 – at Newspapers.com

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12 Dec 2007, Page 25 – Arizona Republic at Newspapers.com

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138 Responses to The Arctic Is Ice Free – How Can Sea Ice Be Declining?

  1. Steve Case says:

    Off Topic:

    If you’re going to take in “Climate Hustle” this comming Monday, it may be a very good opportunity for lots of people who share a common view of Climate Change/Global Warming to connect with one another. Bring a notebook and a pack of calling cards. Most theaters these days have cafes of some sort for people to gather before or after the show.

    I bought my ticket in person a week or so ago, and I asked what the turnout was so far. Very good for a one time presentation I was told.

  2. The insulating effect of ice is very high. As soon as ice opens even a little, heat is lost from the ocean to the atmosphere through convection and evaporation, and almost directly to space via radiation. Even using the radiative losses alone (which are small compared to the others), any open water will get cooled very quickly, closing the ice again. The radiative losses from ice are small (because the surface cools to almost match the much cooler air temperature, reducing radiation at T^4, and due to slow conduction of heat through ice, (which allows the upper layer to match air temp)). But once open water exists, the radiation goes at the usual rate for an emissivity of 1, less any DW radiation from above. Open water can also cause clouds, which will reduce radiation to space somewhat at the first pass, but the clouds (droplets) themselves also radiate from the top of the cloud, making an even more efficient heat transfer media to radiate it away from the ambient air to space.

    Open water is a huge negative feedback with LOTS of headroom.

    Of course, this is ignored completely and the nearly insignificant factor of albedo is used as the one that is important.

  3. sfx2020 says:

    >Of course, this is ignored completely and the nearly insignificant factor of albedo is used as the one that is important.

    A feedback that countered any warming would be a terrible thing to behold. So they don’t behold it.

  4. ricks2014 says:

    I just got back from a trek across the Arctic Ice Sheet and it’s all gone !

    Once I made the swim from Greenland to the outer edge of the Arctic Ice Sheet, and with every step towards the North Pole, the Ice melted right behind me, and when I got to the Pole, Bam, the last peice of Ice melted behind me, fortunately the actual Pole, placed there by the Eskimos back in 1979, was all that was left, so I grabbed a hold of it and held on for dear life !

    Again, fortunately, the Arctic Ocean was bathing in 78° water temperatures, and if I hadn’t brought some Tropicana #10 Sun Tan lotion, I also would have received a severe Sun Burn, greatly complicating an already severe situation !!!

    After a day or two, when the situation seemed totally bleak, Bam, up popped an Eskimo Submarine (I didn’t realize that the Eskimos had such an advanced technology), so I boarded the Eskimo Sub, and we celebrated with the 5th of Wild Turkey that I just so happened to have in my Back-Pack, and we feasted on Alaskan King Salman and they (The Eskimos) gave me a lift home and dropped me just outside the Huntington Beach Pier were I then swam to shore !

    What an adventure !!!!!

    I just got back, last night around 3am, Monday, April 25, 2016, A DAY THAT WILL LIVE IN INFAMY !

    Lesson learned, don’t try trekking across the Arctic Sea Ice because it is not there anymore (WHY DIDN’T I LISTEN TO AL GORE IN THE FIRST PLACE?)

    This is a “True” Story, because I don’t “Lie”, and I am an “Expert”, so don’t question Me or My authority, My “Education” far exceeds yours and “Genius” just drips from My Hands, it is now “settled” !

    The Arctic Ice Question is SETTLED !

    Sincerely yours

    Rick J. Muir [Rick John Muir] – Naturalist, Preservationist and Adventurer, esq

  5. AndyG55 says:

    Can’t seem to get an answer..

    Can anyone tell me how much Arctic sea ice there SHOULD currently be?

    Base your answer on the whole of the current interglacial, not just the slight warming period out of the coldest period of the last 10,000 years.

  6. AndyG55 says:

    SG, that article 19 Jun 1972, Page 41 – at Newspapers.com (link is above) indicates a worry about melting Arctic sea ice around the early 1970s. This is backed up by early satellite records.

    How come “reconstructions” by AGW “scientists” don’t show this? 😉

    (sorry.. that’s a silly question, I know.)

  7. gator69 says:

    The last time “scientists” can be “certain” the pole was “awsah in water” was 50 million years ago?

    Political scientists?

  8. cdqgfj says:

    Looks like the volume is going towards zero in the summer:

    • gator69 says:

      Cfool, did you notice the cherry picked start date of 1979? Or that the ice rebounded from the 2012 low? No, you didn’t. Zealots only see what they want to see.

      • cdqgfj says:

        The rebound is over. Also, the sea ice volume cannot have been even close to modern values in the summer prior to 1979 because people would have noticed that.

        • gator69 says:

          The rebound is over.

          So you are able to read the future? Then why do you always step in it with both feet?😆

          the sea ice volume cannot have been even close to modern values in the summer prior to 1979 because people would have noticed that.

          People did notice, sheep did not.

          https://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/screenhunter_8822-apr-30-06-28.gif?w=640&h=470

        • AndyG55 says:

          Yes, the “rebound” in Artic sea ice levels since the LIA is probably over.

          The AMO is starting to head downwards…. COOLING

          There is a solid La Nina forming…. COOLING

          The sun is having a bit of a snooze, maybe for a few decades…. COOLING

          So the highly beneficial Arctic warming and highly beneficial rebound of Arctic sea ice toward the zero summer levels of the first 3/4 of the Holocene, has almost certainly come to an end. Now all they have to look forward to up there is being frozen in again, year after year.

  9. cdqgfj says:

    Well, in that old graph the difference between pre-1975 and 1979 is ONLY 2 million km2 in ice extent. In 2012 the sea ice extent low was 4 million km2 under the values seen in early 1980’s, which is TWICE the amount. So we are presently CLEARLY WAY LOWER than pre-1979.

    hope this helps

    • gator69 says:

      Two million km2 in four years, a very impressive change. So why do your alarmist buddies chop off the first four years? Hmmm?

      And what about the FACT that there is currently more ice than the average of the past 9000 years? Hmmm? Or did you hit your head again, and forget again for the umpteenth time?

      So much for your prediction of Arctic ice collapse. You could not even see coming that which has foiled your arguments repeatedly for years now.

      Ice melts, and water freezes. Always has and always will. All you have is religion cfool.

      • cdqgfj says:

        The sea ice is close to record lows as we speak. Where’s the “recovery” that has been advertised here for years? Sounds like a pipe dream…

  10. cdqgfj says:

    Have you guys forgotten that this interglacial was slowly getting cooler for thousands of years? So why this rapid arctic heating now? What other explanations than CO2 are there?

    • cdqgfj says:

      In other words, what causes this:

      • gator69 says:

        Grant money. Clearly this chart is incorrect, as it ersases the MWP.

        As for what causes climate change, everyone knows that nature does, all by herself as she has for over 4 billion years.

        Any more stupid questions dope?

        • cdqgfj says:

          So what is causing the modern ultra-rapid warming? The long temperature graphs do not show any candidate “oscillations” or “cycles” that could be the culprit. You guys are really catching at straws here..

        • gator69 says:

          There is no “modern ultra-rapid warming”, you dope.

        • But this dope is ultra-rapid. A return to sanity, if attempted, will be slow and painful.

          ——————–
          The Coleman Institute
          Why We No Longer Do Ultra-Rapid Detoxification

        • AndyG55 says:

          DOH ! cFool again shows his ignorance, and the fact that his sum knowledge is based on a 10 second “sound grab” from an AGW scare site.

          1. There is no rapid warming. Apart from the El Nino spikes there has been zero warming in the satellite era

          2. The AMO explains ALL of the sea ice loss since 1979.

          3. Here is a long term temperature graph… and it shows that the Arctic is very much at the cool end of the current interglacial.

          Your mind is living in a LIE, cFool.

      • pmc47025 says:

        Is that a Marcott study graph?

        “The trouble is, as they quietly admitted over the weekend, their new and stunning claim is groundless. The real story is only just emerging, and it isn’t pretty.”

        http://business.financialpost.com/fp-comment/were-not-screwed

        • gator69 says:

          Yep.

          I remember hearing the hippies speak of how they were going to change the world using love and peace. I never dreamed they would grow up and change the world, by changing the past world, using grants and deceit.

      • AndyG55 says:

        You really should try to keep up..

        Even Marcott said that the tail he added onto that graph was a LIE.

      • AndyG55 says:

        And of course tree rings are probably THE WORST temperature proxy there is.

        Here is the reconstruction of the last 1000 years without using tree rings

        The LIA is clearly visible, and oh.. look when the major warming out of the LIA was, from 1850ish to 1880.. CO2 was even lower then than it is now.

    • gator69 says:

      You mean what causes climate change? Easy, the same thing that has always caused climate change you dope.

    • What other explanations than CO2 …

      What’s in cdqgfj’s pipe?

      • gator69 says:

        BERLIN — Thrill-seeking European teenagers have found a revolting new way to get high — they smoke dried poop like it’s going out of style!

        Nobody knows just how, when or where the sick but legal fad got started.

        But concerned authorities estimate as many as 200,000 kids light up each and every day in England, Germany, France and the Netherlands alone. […]

        Dried cow dung is the poop of choice among aficionados.

        Weekly World News, 3 September 2002

        • If we didn’t have cdqgfj I’d never learn these things. And I live in Progressive Boulder!

        • gator69 says:

          Someone finally bought the property to the west of mine this past March, and she is from Colorado. I asked her what prompted her move out here (as this place is still a well kept secret), and she said it was the combination of a recent divorce, and the Californication of The Centennial State.

        • richard says:

          Hello ,Gator! Just for general info; when the westward
          trek was crossing the plains in U.S., dried bison chips was
          the fuel for campfires(not by choice, that’s all there was).
          NOW WE KNOW WHY THEY USED BUFFALO CHIPS!!
          Thanks, man.

    • AndyG55 says:

      “So why this rapid arctic heating now?”

      It is NOT rapidly heating. You are living in a LIE.

      Apart from El Nino effects from the Grand Solar Maximum through the latter half of last century, ..

      THERE HAS BEEN NO WARMING IN THE WHOLE OF THE SATELLITE RECORD.

      Here is the period 1980-just before the 1998 EL Nino.. NO WARMING

      Here is the period between the end of the first El Nino and the star of the second…. NO WARMING

      Yes there was some natural and highly beneficial warming out of the Little Ice Age….. but that appears to have stopped.

  11. cdqgfj says:

    Yes there is very rapid warming in the Arctic and there’s less sea ice than in the 1930’s. At the same time oceans have been warming and rising without any pauses and ice sheets & mountain glaciers started to lose ice more and more rapidly.

    Any evidence of this being the result of “natural cycles”? I haven’t seen it.

    • Neal S says:

      And I suppose there are large cargo ships now regularly cutting through the northwest passage. cdqgfj is seriously delusional and would not know truth if it smacked him in the face.

    • gator69 says:

      No cfool, there is no “modern ultra-rapid warming”, period. You showed a grant driven graph that was proven to be BS. Marcott mishandled the data and created a farce, and you bought it.

      I have 4.5 billion years of evidence that show that all global climate changes are natural. Where is your proof otherwise?

      Please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of any global climate change.

      • cdqgfj says:

        CO2 absorbs infrared radiation (fact) so it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you pump that into the atmosphere, the energy-balance between the Earth and space is going to change. Why don’t you refute that?

        • gator69 says:

          CO2 levels have been higher with lower temperatures. Obviously CO2 is not the driver of climate, plus there are negative feedbacks, and there is evidence CO2 also cools the atmosphere.

          So, again, please provide even one peer reviewed paper that refutes natural variability as the cause of any global climate change. If you cannot, then you must concede you are the science denier here.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Lets see what guys who actually working in the field of CO2 radiation absorption say….

          http://lasersparkpluginc.com/uploads/CO2_Absorption_Data.pdf

          First line….

          “There is no Valid Mechanism for CO2 Creating Global Warming”

          cFool, you are an ignorant twerp, with the mind of a 6 year old, and you really need to go and get a basic education, and some actual KNOWLEDGE rather than listening snippets on the AGW scareweb.

    • Sunsettommy says:

      You really want to ignore the other 10,000 years of the Holocene,that had in period of times little to no sea ice in the Arctic during the summer?

      It was natural then,but not natural now despite having far more ice surviving the short summer month of recent years?

      You are not well cdqgfj

      • cdqgfj says:

        So why the ultra-rapid change now, if earlier in the holocene the temperature-changes were much more gradual? Small wonder ice sheets, mountain glaciers and sea ice are out of balance and losing ice mass as we speak.

        • If you were truly asking because you wanted to know, it’s because the LIA was the coldest period during the entire Holocene, so cold it looked like the beginning of a real ice age. The ultra-rapid change puts up back to normal Holocene temperatures.

          But since you aren’t truly asking because you want to know, and are a lying sack of commie scum, then all I can say is, GO BERNIE.

  12. cdqgfj says:

    So, what are the lengths of the “cycles” that have caused the warming during the last 150 years? Got evidences?

    ps. where’s the recovery?

    https://ads.nipr.ac.jp/vishop/vishop-extent.html?N

    • gator69 says:

      So, what are the lengths of the “cycles” that have caused the warming during the last 150 years?

      Why are you asking me? Even if I knew and could prove it you would still parrot some alarmist claptrap. Ask your priests for the proof dope.

      where’s the recovery?

      You are looking at it dope. Ice in the Arctic is a recovery dope. Why do you deny nature dope? And where is that pesky paper you have never provided dope?

      • cdqgfj says:

        So you have no clue of the “natural cycles” do you? You might as well say “fairies” did it. Therefore, it explains nothing.

        • gator69 says:

          So you believe fairies controlled Earth’s climate for 4.5 billion years dope? Interesting religion you have dope.

          I OTOH know that it was not fairies that controlled climate dope.

          It really is astounding how foolish the faithful make themselves look when they try and ignore science. I stand by the peer review process that shows that natural varuiability is the most likely cause of recent climate changes.

        • cdschmuck, does it matter to you that current CO2 levels are the lowest they have ever been in the whole history of the world?

    • pmc47025 says:

      cdq you have it backwards. You (the virtual alarmist group “you”) must show that any recent detectable climate changes are somehow different than changes that have occurred in the geologic past (10K, 200K, 2B years?) and that CO2 is the cause (ruling out all others).

    • AndyG55 says:

      cFool would rather we were back In the COLDEST period of the current interglacial.

      Go and live in Upper Siberia, you moronic twerp.

      • cdqgfj says:

        Oh so it’s warming after all? Why?

        • AndyG55 says:

          You are an IDIOT.

          Yes was warming from the COLDEST period of the last 10,000 years. Thank goodness.

          NOTHING TO DO WITH CO2.

          It was cooling before that.

        • Sunsettommy says:

          Andy has shown to you TWICE that the Arctic region is cooling and has been for around 3,000 years since the last of the warm period that was of similar peaks,the Minoan warm period since then each warm peak is cooler than the previous one.

          It is clear there has been a phase change to a cooler regime that indicate the Holocene is drawing to a close.

        • AndyG55 says:

          We can all be VERY GRATEFUL for the small warming bump that is the Modern Slightly Warm Period.

    • AndyG55 says:

      We have just recovered slightly from the COLDEST period of the last 10,000 years.

      Be very grateful of that.

      And it had nothing to do with CO2

      Here’s a scientist.. a REAL one .. talking about where we really are wrt temperatures.

      LISTEN , and do TRY TO LEARN

  13. AndyG55 says:

    Even with the large effect of the El Nino and Pacific blob, and the peak February “not-as-darn-freezing-as-usual” anomaly over Russia,..

    Arctic sea ice level is still above that of 2006, 2007.

    Given NS-DIC’s latest fraudulent mal-adjustments, and the fact that one of the sats they use has gone awol…..they can be totally ignored.

  14. cdqgfj says:

    This is the 1st time since 1958 since DMI:s north of 80N temperature has been above the mean for this long:

    Some “recovery”, LOL

    • AndyG55 says:

      WOW.. 250-255 K

      That’s 20 degrees BELOW freezing, bonehead !!!

      You really ARE that IGNORANT, Aren’t you !!

      • cdqgfj says:

        That’s the reason arctic sea ice did not grow very think this past winter, genius. The recovery is dead and we’ll see if the “death spiral” will start again or not..

        • AndyG55 says:

          The reason was the El Nino caused spike in northern Russia.

          But you are IGNORANT of that too, aren’t you bonehead.

          Methinks you are very THICK !!

          And yes, the RECOVERY from the LIA almost certainly has ended.

          AMO heading downwards,

          Deep La Nina approaching.

          Sun having a snooze.

          Cooling and increased Arctic sea ice over the next few decades.

          And hopefully, the END of AGW farce.

        • AndyG55 says:

          “we’ll see if the “death spiral” will start again or not”

          As the Arctic starts to cool , and northern countries battle against decimated energy supply systems (due to the Green agenda)….

          yes.. I suspect there will be a large increase in DEATH due to COLD….

          but you WILL NOT CARE, will you.. you disgusting slimebag.

          Death, freezing, children starving… the Green anti-CO2 agenda writ large..

          and YOU support it.

          You truly are a SICK, EVIL and DISGUSTING person .

        • AndyG55 says:

          “That’s the reason arctic sea ice did not grow very think this past winter”

          What, because its only -20C..

          did you seriously say that ???????? roflmao !!!!!

  15. cdqgfj says:

    The medieval warm period is there…but this certainly does not look like a “recovery” from LIA but the result of forcing:

  16. cdqgfj says:

    Oh is this graph again some unpublishable work that has been scavenged from some blog? Climate skeptics should step up and publish their research, otherwise they are like cretinist anti-evolutionists who likewise cannot create publishable results…

  17. cdqgfj says:

    Will we make new records this year? When is the predicted “Arctic warming” or even the “recovery” going to kick in?

    • AndyG55 says:

      The “recovery” from the LIA has ended.

      Over the next few decades the temperatures will head downwards and Arctic sea ice will increase.

      Move to somewhere warm… oh wait… I bet you already live somewhere warm.

    • AndyG55 says:

      “Will we make new records this year?”

      Only in the very short term records since the LIA.

      Be VERY grateful of that SLIGHT warming.

  18. cdqgfj says:

    So how this “recovery from LIA” is overshooting by so much? We’re not in warmer conditions than before the LIA, so of course ice is melting globally…

    • cdqgfj says:

      Mixed my words…meant to say we ARE NOW in warmer conditions than before the LIA, so this correction is overshooting. Why is that? Fairies or galactic cosmic rays perhaps?

      • AndyG55 says:

        You were right the first time

        We are NOWHERE NEAR pre LIA temperatures.

        You are a LIAR !!!!!!

        • AndyG55 says:

          Biomarkers clearly show that for the first 3/4 of the Holocene, the Arctic was quite regularly ICE FREE in summer.

          We are nowhere near that now.

          Whaling records from Iceland show about the same Arctic sea ice extent above Iceland, as we have now, during the late MWP as it was cooling rapidly into the LIA.

          That mean the NH is BELOW the peak of the MWP, and most definitely BELOW the much warmer periods of the Holocene Optimum.

    • AndyG55 says:

      “We’re not in warmer conditions than before the LIA”

      Wow.. you got something right

      Ice is not melting globally..

      Global sea ice is remarkable steady

      Glaciers are not melting any quicker .. some are actually starting to grow.

      Arctic sea ice mass has turned the corner and is increasing DESPITE the big warming spike from the El Nino.

      You truly are getting DESPERATE, aren’t you little anti-human slimebag

      • cdqgfj says:

        Nope, sea ice volume is low according to measurements with Cryosat:

        http://neven1.typepad.com/.a/6a0133f03a1e37970b01bb08ea3624970d-pi

        ..it’s likely that the PIOMAS-graph you posted will move down again and finish the fake recovery off.

      • AndyG55 says:

        Arctic sea ice is HIGH relative to all but the last short period out of the LIA.

        Neven and his buddies don’t have the GUTS to admit this, because it would destroy their mindless propaganda..

        you know, that’s the propaganda you swallow mindlessly.

        Its much more likely that over the next several year, the piomass graph will continue its upward trend.

        The AMO has switch to a downward trend.. NH COOLING

        A strong La Nina is already starting .. NH COOLING

        The sun is having a bit of a snooze… GLOBAL COOLING

        Panic, cFool.. your brain-washing is about to be overwhelmed by nature, and you be left looking back at what a mindless, moronic idiot you currently are.

  19. AndyG55 says:

    so of course ice is melting globally…

    BULLSHIT

  20. AndyG55 says:

    “We show that water masses linked to North Pacific and Antarctic intermediate waters were warmer by 2.1 ± 0.4°C and 1.5 ± 0.4°C, respectively, during the middle Holocene Thermal Maximum than over the past century. Both water masses were ~0.9°C warmer during the Medieval Warm period than during the Little Ice Age and ~0.65° warmer than in recent decades.”

    http://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6158/617.abstract

    Oh dear seems even the oceans are cooler now than ANY time except the LIA.

    No wonder there is STILL SO MUCH Arctic sea ice.

    • cdqgfj says:

      That’s hardly a global dataset. Take a look at the plot from Marcott, or in fact any of the more recent “hockey stick” reconstructions…pre-LIA temperatures are much lower than present-day ones.

      • AndyG55 says:

        So, you have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING except a reconstruction using shoddy tree-rings, which has been debunked by the writer himself. !! is that right ?

        So funny !!

        Both Vostok, GISS , and many, many, many other samples around the world show that the MWP was REAL and was WARMER than now.

        The FACT that biomarkers show that for most of the first 3/4 had ZERO summer sea ice mean nothing to you, obviously because you are a moronic, ignorant, unthinking idiot !

        • cdqgfj says:

          Of course sea ice disappears in a warmer world, like what is happening now. But can you explain why the present warming is so fast?

        • AndyG55 says:

          North Atlantic is cooling rapidly. You are LYING , yet again.

          You really are several years behind wrt facts , aren’t you silly child.

          Please tell me.. what SHOULD the current level of Arctic sea ice be?

        • AndyG55 says:

          Pic link in another way

        • AndyG55 says:

          sorry, first post gave me a X for the image. now its ok.

        • AndyG55 says:

          Poor cFool, you haven’t been able to produce one single item that hasn’t been already debunked, or can’t be immediately refuted with facts.

          You continue to make a MOCKERY of AGW cultists with you continued ignorance and basic ineptitude.

          ….. are you paid by someone to do be so DUMB?

        • AndyG55 says:

          poor cfool.. he seems to have run out of ammo

          How do you run out of ammo, when you are firing blanks, cFool ?!

  21. AndyG55 says:

    Since none of the AGW trolls seem to be able to answer, I’ll ask again

    “Can someone tell me what the current level of Arctic sea ice SHOULD be?”

    Make reference to the full Holocene period in your answer.

  22. cdqgfj says:

    The level should be such that it does not disrupt weather-patterns, for example by affecting the jet-stream. Shitty & shifty weather-patterns get helluva expensive fast.

    • AndyG55 says:

      The only thing you can mange now is LIES

    • AndyG55 says:

      cFool is running out of blanks, by the looks of it.

      Nothing to offer to any rational debate, just empty ranting. … so sad. 😦

      • You see, he knows his stuff and can tell you speedy quick. Knows his numbers. Ice should be just right. Is scientifical. And weather should not be shitty. Or shifty. Can’t have shitty weather. Wouldn’t be right. Them shitty patterns gets expensive.

        So there.

  23. cdqgfj says:

    North Atlantic might be cooling thanks to the increased melting in Greenland…which might affect the Gulf-stream in the medium-term. Please ask what the strength of the Gulf-stream “should be”😀😀

    • AndyG55 says:

      So, nothing in the way of any facts at all to offer.

      No change from your usual junk postings.

      What did you say the current level of Arctic sea ice should be?

      Oh wait,,, you didn’t answer, because you KNOW that you could not substantiate ANYTHING that you would say.

    • AndyG55 says:

      Any melting from Greenland is part of the small climb out of the LIA.. thank goodness..
      or part of the peak of the AMO cycle, or from the slightly increased volcanic activity of the Icelandic magma blob (caused by CO2 of course)

      This year, Greenland has gained surface mass appreciably.

      Get back to me when they are growing barley in Greenland again, like the Vikings did.

      • cdqgfj says:

        One could grow Barley in Greenland already 10 years ago, when the climate was colder than now:

        http://www.economist.com/node/7852916

        Do you get ALL your info from denialist sites?

        • AndyG55 says:

          “Kenneth Hoeth has been growing it, but only as an experiment.”

          Oh dear, didn’t read what you were posting again, did you.

        • AndyG55 says:

          “THE Middle Ages were unusually warm in northern Europe, and it was during that period that the Vikings settled in Greenland. They cultivated land, growing mostly barley. The climate then cooled down, which made the place too chilly for arable farming. ”

          OOPS !!!!!

          did you read that first sentence at all ?

          Poor brainless cFool!

        • gator69 says:

          The Vikings did not have the advantage of genetically modified crops from Monsanto…

          Vikings grew barley (aka corn)
          ….The Vikings are both famous and notorious for their like of beer and mead, and archaeologists have discussed for years whether Eric the Red (ca. 950-1010) and his followers had to make do without the golden drink when they settled in Greenland around the year 1,000.
          The Greenland climate was mild when they landed, but was it warm enough for growing corn?
          Researchers from the National Museum in Copenhagen say the answer to the question is ‘yes’. In a unique find, they uncovered very small pieces of charred grains of barley in a Viking rubbish heap on Greenland.
          The find is final proof that the first Vikings to live in Greenland did grow barley – the most important ingredient in brewing beer, making a form of porridge or baking bread, traditionally seen as staple foods in the Vikings’ nutritional diet….
          “Archaeologists have always believed that the Vikings tried to cultivate the soil on their farms in fertile southern Greenland,” says Peter Steen Henriksen, who holds an MSc in agriculture. “But this hasn’t been proved until now.”

          Settling in a harsh environment

          Henriksen, an archaeobotanist at the National Museum’s Environmental Archaeology and Archaeometry section (NNU) in Copenhagen, led an expedition to Greenland to study how the Vikings tackled the task of settling in a cold and harsh environment.
          “Now we can see that the Vikings could grow corn, and this was very important for their nourishment and survival,” he says.

          The find also substantiates a well-known text from about 1250, ‘King’s mirror (Konungs skuggsjá)’, which mentions in passing that the Vikings attempted to grow corn on Greenland. It is the only report about cultivating barley that we have from that time.…..

          http://sciencenordic.com/vikings-grew-barley-greenland

          Remember this is ‘unimproved’ barley before the scientists got a hold of it and shortened the growing season.

          NEW VARIETIES

          Fabian Two-row Winter Barley

          In the Official Variety Trials it showed high grain yields under intensive growing conditions (104.5%) and medium yields under low input conditions (101.1%).Fabian has the highest cold hardiness of the registered two-row winter barleys and regenerates very well in the spring. Its resistance to powdery mildew is very high (score 8.2 on a 1–9 scale). It has medium plant height, moderate resistance to lodging and large yellow kernel. The spike is long and of medium density….

          …..it has very good resistance to drought during spring regeneration…..
          And under the catagory of plants..

          …The LT50 value (lethal temperature at which 50% of samples are killed) of Fabian plants taken from a field in the winter 2013/2014 was –14.2°C (determined by a direct freezing test, Prášil et al. 2007). The plants survived well during the 2009/2010 and 2010/1011 winters even in difficult conditions (Table 4). This property became especially advantageous under the 2011/2012 winter conditions and subsequent dry vegetation period, when the unfavourable weather conditions significantly damaged winter crops in many areas of the Czech Republic.…..

          A history of the Vikings in Greenland:

          The Greenland Vikings

          Selected quotes from- The Last Viking: West by Northwest, by John N. Harris, M.A.(CMNS).

          As the twelfth century ended, the climate reversed. Ice crept southward, all over Europe snow fell lower on the mountain slopes, upland trees died. Pack-ice cluttered the coasts of Greenland, then tightened an Arctic noose to strangle movement.
          Moreover, in describing recent research carried out at an Inuit site on the Burnside River south of the Kent Peninsula, Bryan Gordon of the Museum of Civilization ( Nadlok and the Origin of the Copper Inuit – Climate, Dating and Seasonality ) provides data that suggest the Passage may have become difficult if not impractical by 1450 A.D:
          Nadlok’s carbon-dated floors and levels show a 1450-1750 A.D. occupation in the Little Ice Age, a time of deteriorating climate when ocean temperature fell 1-3 deg. C and the Arctic summer front retreated 4-5 deg. of latitude. Sea ice stayed all year in sheltered Bathurst Inlet and east Coronation Gulf, inevitably disrupting sea-mammals and their hunters, but with little effect on caribou.

          Nevertheless, it likely follows that prior to this time – the ” Viking Age ” between 800 and 1100 CE especially – that a warmer climate prevailed along at least the eastern approaches to the Northwest Passage if not its entirety. Indeed, as Charles W. Moore notes ( Did 14th Century Scandinavian Explorers Visit Midwestern North America? ):
          For the first century or so of their Greenland colonization, the Vikings and their descendants enjoyed a reasonably prosperous and pleasant life there. Greenland’s climate c. 1000 A.D. was in an extraordinarily warm phase, and the name Eric chose for his new land may not have been quite the real-estate promoter’s con-job as has been assumed. Even 350 years later, after a general global cooling had altered Greenland’s climate for the worse, Ivar Bardson wrote that ” On the mountains and lower down grow the best of fruits, as big as apples and good to eat. There also grows the best wheat that exists.” Life in Greenland was hardly the rough outpost existence we might expect….

          However by 1200, climatic change allowed the arctic ice pack to creep farther southward, making navigation in Greenland waters increasingly hazardous — even in summer. Ships came now only sporadically, and some years none called at all. In 1261, the Greenlanders felt obliged to accept union with Norway and subjection to the Norwegian crown, in return for which two ships would be sent per year. This effectively shut the Hansa markets off from Greenland trade, and sometimes even the promised Norwegian vessels didn’t make it through the ice. The colonies’ decline accelerated….

      • AndyG55 says:

        cFool, still firing blanks, but also hand us ammunition.. very DUMB !!!

  24. pmc47025 says:

    My dog “might” $hit a golden brick, however, I’m not basing any retirement plans on that possibility.

    According to NASA in 2010:
    “New NASA measurements of the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, part of the global ocean conveyor belt that helps regulate climate around the North Atlantic, show no significant slowing over the past 15 years. The data suggest the circulation may have even sped up slightly in the recent past.”

    http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/atlantic20100325.html

    • Global warming may be happening, the sea level might be accelerating, the UN might be redistributing wealth, Bernie might want to impose confiscatory tax on the rich, Obama might be a Muslim terrorist. Hey, this is fun

    • cdqgfj says:

      Gee don’t you know that predicting the future is hard. Please elect a president who dumbs things down to black-and-white statements that please the undereducated and overreligious masses…

  25. cdqgfj says:

    ZOMG Greeland is shrinking!!

  26. cdqgfj says:

    WUWT is bullshitting as usual, most of the mass-loss in Greenland is in areas that are outside the postulated hotspot. Of course, denialists have to believer all of their own propaganda since they do not produce much science and science/datasets that do not agree with their politics are ignored. A group of myopic cherrypickers!

    • cfool, the ocean has 1.4 billion cubic kilometers of water. A cubic kilometer of water weighs a gigaton. If Greenland loses 100 gigatons of ice a year to add to the 1.4 billion gigatons of water in the ocean, who really gives a

      • cdqgfj says:

        Well the oceans are rising…wait, all the altimeter datasets are “fabricated” as well aren’t they?

        Life must be easy when some blogs tell you which science to believe and which not to believe. Kind of like cre(a)ti(o)nism..

        • AndyG55 says:

          They have been rising very slowly without any acceleration since before any human effect could be even considered.

          here is NO INDICATOR of human influence in sea level rise. NONE,

          Another blank from cFool.

    • gator69 says:

      … science/datasets that do not agree with their politics are ignored. A group of myopic cherrypickers!

      Pure psychological projection.

      You guys tout graphs that use cherry picked dates, trees, and models and then declare victory. All this while you ignore 4.5 billion years of history and the FACT that natural variability has never been disproven.

      Which of your go-to references disagrees with your politics dope?

  27. Sunsettommy says:

    Meanwhile cdqgfj,like many warmists never admits that the arctic ice levels does nothing to support the AGW conjecture which in itself shows only a very small warmforcing effect.

    There have been periods of time during the Holocene when there were little to no summer ice in the Arctic,while the CO2 levels were around the 260-280 level. This alone shows that CO2 is not a player in the dynamics of the Arctic weather system.

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